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Birmingham CPZ Zone Parking ticket on a SYL
alex253
Posts: 11 Forumite
Hi,
I recieved a PCN from Birmingham City Council on the 30th July 2012. I appealed it the day after via post, and I have only just recieved the outcome of this informal appeal. They have rejected my appeal.
The background to this PCN is this - I parked on a single yellow line after 6pm in Birmingham City Centre, I looked around for signs regarding this Single Yellow Line (i.e. free after 6pm as I had assumed), but the signpost was missing (please see photo posted below). I parked my car and returned to see a PCN on the car. This was my first parking ticket from the council and I had never heard of a Controlled Parking Zone until this.
The summary of the letter that I sent to them was:
1. CPZ Signage placed at a busy turn right junction and was difficult for me to see as a motorist - there should have been a repeated sign.
2. The contravention did not occur. The CPZ was issued:
"01 Parking in a restricted street during prescribed hours"
But I said that this was an incorrect code as it should have been code:
"02 Parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force"
They seem to have completlely ignored in their response this fact that I said that the contravention did not occur. To be honest, their letter just seemed a lot of standard stuff despite me ringing them and them saying it had been passed to a supervisor, then to head office, and then they were going to arrange a site visit, and taking over 7 weeks for a response.
I read on another post that this was the incorrect code as there are loading restrictions in force in this CPZ, but I the CPZ signs are the same otherwise.
So they have offered for me to pay the £35 reduced penalty. I don't know whether to pay or appeal - I'm a uni student and don't want the risk of them sending letters to my home address and me not being there to read them. I told them to email me but they insist on post it would seem.
If I take it to the adjudicator will I still be eligible to pay to £35 if I lose the appeal?
And do I have a case or should I just pay up.
Many thanks for your help. (please see photos attacked).
I recieved a PCN from Birmingham City Council on the 30th July 2012. I appealed it the day after via post, and I have only just recieved the outcome of this informal appeal. They have rejected my appeal.
The background to this PCN is this - I parked on a single yellow line after 6pm in Birmingham City Centre, I looked around for signs regarding this Single Yellow Line (i.e. free after 6pm as I had assumed), but the signpost was missing (please see photo posted below). I parked my car and returned to see a PCN on the car. This was my first parking ticket from the council and I had never heard of a Controlled Parking Zone until this.
The summary of the letter that I sent to them was:
1. CPZ Signage placed at a busy turn right junction and was difficult for me to see as a motorist - there should have been a repeated sign.
2. The contravention did not occur. The CPZ was issued:
"01 Parking in a restricted street during prescribed hours"
But I said that this was an incorrect code as it should have been code:
"02 Parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force"
They seem to have completlely ignored in their response this fact that I said that the contravention did not occur. To be honest, their letter just seemed a lot of standard stuff despite me ringing them and them saying it had been passed to a supervisor, then to head office, and then they were going to arrange a site visit, and taking over 7 weeks for a response.
I read on another post that this was the incorrect code as there are loading restrictions in force in this CPZ, but I the CPZ signs are the same otherwise.
So they have offered for me to pay the £35 reduced penalty. I don't know whether to pay or appeal - I'm a uni student and don't want the risk of them sending letters to my home address and me not being there to read them. I told them to email me but they insist on post it would seem.
If I take it to the adjudicator will I still be eligible to pay to £35 if I lose the appeal?
And do I have a case or should I just pay up.
Many thanks for your help. (please see photos attacked).
0
Comments
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I can't post links unfortunately but will try and add them in somehow if someone knows a way?0
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add the link with out the www and ill post it up for you alexFor everthing else there's mastercard.
For clampers there's Barclaycard.0 -
thanks!
photobucket.com/albums/s226/alexweaver253/IMG_2140.jpg
photobucket.com/albums/s226/alexweaver253/IMG_2052.jpg
forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=465630 -
I used to be a CEO (Civil Enforcement Officer - aka Traffic Warden) so here are my thoughts:The background to this PCN is this - I parked on a single yellow line
So thats a Code 01 then.I looked around for signs regarding this Single Yellow Line (i.e. free after 6pm as I had assumed), but the signpost was missing
For a CPZ there doesn't need to be a sign post for yellow line restrictions or any other restriction mentioned on the CPZ sign. CPZs are a PITA in towns that you don't know - they're ok in a town that you live in and know well but when you're from another area they really are a pain. The only way to be sure you see them is to slow down and hold up the rest of the traffic behind you. Either way you can't win against the state as they have us all stitched up.I had never heard of a Controlled Parking Zone until this.
In their eyes, thats your problem. You as a motorist should be keeping up to date with the highway code and parking restrictions. Thats how they get away with it.1. CPZ Signage placed at a busy turn right junction and was difficult for me to see as a motorist - there should have been a repeated sign.
Doesn't matter, it's there thats the main thing. The council will hear nothing of this unless you go to a proper appeal and also drag the county council into this over the positioning of the signs.2. The contravention did not occur. The CPZ was issued:
"01 Parking in a restricted street during prescribed hours"
But I said that this was an incorrect code as it should have been code:
"02 Parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force"
There are no kerb markings on single yellow lines so how could there ever be a loading restriction on it? - There couldn't. Kerb markings and loading restrictions are only on double yellows. If by "The CPZ was issued:" you meant "The PCN was issued:" then I'd seriously reconsider your thoughts of appealing. They'll walk all over you if you can't get basic things like terminology and contravention codes correct.They seem to have completlely ignored in their response this fact that I said that the contravention did not occur.
No, they've just ignored the fact that you're wrong about contravention codes and how they work. (sorry if that is a bit blunt)To be honest, their letter just seemed a lot of standard stuff despite me ...
It will be of course. You don't understand the contravention codes or how the restrictions work because you've not kept up to date with the highway code and parking restrictions. It's not (in their eyes) their job to send you a detailed explanation of how it works - they're just there to enforce it.I read on another post that this was the incorrect code as there are loading restrictions in force in this CPZ, but I the CPZ signs are the same otherwise.
There may be loading restrictions but they are only where the kerb markings are in place. These are kerb markings:
Note that they come as double or single kerb markings just like the yellow lines.So they have offered for me to pay the £35 reduced penalty. I don't know whether to pay or appeal
They don't even have to offer you that if your 14 days are up. It's down to you if you pay it or scrimp on the wild drunken parties with your fellow students but if you want to appeal you need to come up with a far superior excuse than the one you've already given to them.If I take it to the adjudicator will I still be eligible to pay to £35 if I lose the appeal?
Depends on the adjudicator and his mood. If he thinks you're messing him around he might just throw you to the lions den. On the other hand he may give you the 50% discount again OR (if you have a really good excuse) just cancel the PCN.And do I have a case or should I just pay up.
If it were me I'd accept I made the blunder and pay it but you have the RIGHT to an appeal. If you can come up with something I say appeal it anyway - they can only say no and it gives you more time to find the money.0 -
With respects tricky, if it was me I would go to https://www.pepipoo.com and ask advice there, there could be problems with the pcn or the way they have so far handled the appeal, there could also be problems with the traffic act covering that area. So OP if you want to fight this I advise going to pepipoo and creating a new thread in the council section. Follow the FAQ on there about uploading images to show your pcn they need to see both sides of it.Excel Parking, MET Parking, Combined Parking Solutions, VP Parking Solutions, ANPR PC Ltd, & Roxburghe Debt Collectors. What do they all have in common?
They are all or have been suspended from accessing the DVLA database for gross misconduct!
Do you really need to ask what kind of people run parking companies?0 -
Indeed. I can tell you how it all works from the council / CEOs point of view but I'm not as sharp as many of those on pepipoo who fight these on a daily basis and look up the orders etc.0
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TrickyWicky wrote: »Indeed. I can tell you how it all works from the council / CEOs point of view but I'm not as sharp as many of those on pepipoo who fight these on a daily basis and look up the orders etc.
Only just noticed he's posted on pepipoo already, damned iphone and the fact that I was not paying attention lolExcel Parking, MET Parking, Combined Parking Solutions, VP Parking Solutions, ANPR PC Ltd, & Roxburghe Debt Collectors. What do they all have in common?
They are all or have been suspended from accessing the DVLA database for gross misconduct!
Do you really need to ask what kind of people run parking companies?0 -
Thanks for all of your help, I have also posted it on Pepipoo too already so getting some feedback from there.
Yes I was parked on a single yellow line, but does the fact that the council after 8 weeks still haven't bothered to replace the sign on that post not say something? All the other areas on this road have parking restrictions in place and are signposted so why not this area if there was a pole there?
"There are no kerb markings on single yellow lines so how could there ever be a loading restriction on it? - There couldn't. Kerb markings and loading restrictions are only on double yellows."
Here are the signs for the CPZ - google.co.uk/maps?q=broad+street&hl=en&ll=52.476069,-1.913496&spn=0.001397,0.004128&hq=broad+street&hnear=Sutton+Coldfield,+West+Midlands,+United+Kingdom&t=m&fll=52.475921,-1.913944&fspn=0.001397,0.004128&z=19&layer=c&cbll=52.475978,-1.913284&panoid=N7sNVOLaBNvQiaSnceRYYw&cbp=12,304.46,,1,2.07
I think my dad has agreed to help me appeal this, he is far better with terminology etc, and he has seen the way the council have messed me around by taking 8 weeks for just a standard response - they told me 10 working days max, which I think is unreasonable.
I'm unsure why even though there are loading restrictions in place this is not in the code? They aren't marked on the kerb yes but they are in force on the road so why shouldn't this be included?
I know the rest of the points aren't as strong but I just don't see why the code they have given me is correct, as the link on this other forum, someone also raised this point.
I understand city center parking restrictions but these CPZ zones are so large in Birmingham, and the signs are in a bad location!
Thanks for your help.0 -
Link doesnt show street view !
However having said that - dont rely on what street view shows.
One thing to check with you saying the CPZ signs werent easily readable, were there two CPZ signs ? there should be one either side of the road if the road is either a dual carrageway or the road is over 5M wide.You may click thanks if you found my advice useful0
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