Birmingham CPZ Zone Parking ticket on a SYL

TrickyWicky

Alex,

I've been a CEO / PA / Council Traffic Warden for two different authorities. You don't have to believe a word I say but it would certainly help you to move forward if you did instead of refusing to accept what I am telling you.

alex253 wrote: »

Yes I was parked on a single yellow line, but does the fact that the council after 8 weeks still haven't bothered to replace the sign on that post not say something?

No because in a CPZ there does not need to be a sign at all. That is the whole point of a Controlled Parking Zone - it is a ZONE covered by signs that you drive in through.

As for the 8 weeks, they can take as long as they like as long as they don't expire your payment time while dealing with it. Be grateful they've taken that long because its given you more time to find the cash if you decide to pay it. Most people are grateful for the delay and when I was in the job I used to tell people how to string it out as long as possible for which they were always happy about.

alex253 wrote: »

All the other areas on this road have parking restrictions in place and are signposted so why not this area if there was a pole there?

That depends on what type of restriction is in force. If you're talking about resident bays, Pay & display, loading etc yes they will still have their own signs. Seeing as you've not defined these 'parking restrictions' thats all I can tell you. If you mean they're also single yellow lines in the same road with yellow signs then they may not be under the CPZ and if that is legitimately missing, you may have a good case for an appeal.

alex253 wrote: »

"There are no kerb markings on single yellow lines so how could there ever be a loading restriction on it? - There couldn't. Kerb markings and loading restrictions are only on double yellows."

Here are the signs for the CPZ - google.co.uk/maps?q=broad+street&hl=en&ll=52.476069,-1.913496&spn=0.001397,0.004128&hq=broad+street&hnear=Sutton+Coldfield,+West+Midlands,+United+Kingdom&t=m&fll=52.475921,-1.913944&fspn=0.001397,0.004128&z=19&layer=c&cbll=52.475978,-1.913284&panoid=N7sNVOLaBNvQiaSnceRYYw&cbp=12,304.46,,1,2.07

While I agree with you that those CPZ signs are appallingly placed and signed, there is a no waiting symbol, a further line saying No Loading and that its every day between (times I can't see properly). I can't see if that sign says it ends at 6PM or 8PM. If its 8PM you're done for as your PCN was issued before that. 6PM and you might have something to argue the toss with.

alex253 wrote: »

I think my dad has agreed to help me appeal this, he is far better with terminology etc, and he has seen the way the council have messed me around by taking 8 weeks for just a standard response - they told me 10 working days max, which I think is unreasonable.

Its not unreasonable for them to take this long and you can't use that to get off the PCN unfortunately - council parking depts are busier than the local police stations. As for your dad, you need to both look at the signs again and in a logical manner, not looking for small trivialities you can convince yourselves will get you off the hook (we're all guilty of it) otherwise you're setting yourselves up to fail at an appeal.

alex253 wrote: »

I'm unsure why even though there are loading restrictions in place this is not in the code? They aren't marked on the kerb yes but they are in force on the road so why shouldn't this be included?

Because there are no kerb markings, that means that there is not a loading restriction in that area. The CPZ signs only apply to the lines that apply to that contravention. In this case, if there were kerb markings there then the CPZ signs would apply to them without there being a sign stood next to them. Because there are no kerb markings there the CPZ signs do not apply to that part of the CPZ as long as they are in other places. There are some circumstances where kerb markings aren't used such as in preservation areas (eg historic cities which don't even have yellow lines). Even then, the CEO can issue a PCN for whichever contravention they think is most appropriate. If you're parked there they're not going to PCN you for loading in a loading restriction when you're not even performing any un/loading activity. Instead they'll PCN you for a 01 for waiting in a restricted street.

While it is possible to win an appeal on contravention codes (if it's wildly wrong) I don't think you're going to get far with this one to be honest when your car was on a yellow line with no kerb markings.

alex253 wrote: »

I know the rest of the points aren't as strong but I just don't see why the code they have given me is correct

Because you're on a yellow line. Accept it. As for 'the other case' well thats just that - a different case. Unless it's a car parked in the exact same spot as yours it is not relevant to your PCN.

I'm not trying to destroy your hopes of getting off the PCN on the contrary, I'm simply trying to tell you it how it is so you don't go thinking you're going to get off it based on some miracle technicality. The odds are you won't however I would certainly look at the missing sign and the others and see if it is genuinely a missing yellow sign for a road not covered by the CPZ or if its just an old sign post that is not used for anything (and no, there's nothing to say it must be removed).

alex253

Thanks for your help again everyone

What i'm going to do this Sunday afternoon and look for the signs to every entry point of the CPZ - there is already one that I have found and this could be useful to challenge on if it is still there.

forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=68305

This could be a good case to challenge it on I think.

Plus I still have 14 Days to mull over the options and consider paying/appealing.

Coupon-mad

Yes, there do need to be signs on both sides of the road except where it's a narrow lane. Here's the old case you linked, sadly there was never an update:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=68305

Take photos of the CPZ signs so pepipoo can see the wording & design of the signs. Also take pics of any obscured signs (by trees, other signs cluttering the view from the road, that sort of thing). And take note of any missing signs, take a pic which shows there's only one sign, with the lack of another sign in the background (so take pics from the pavement at an angle across the carriageway).

Just be careful not to get another ticket on your travels!

Post your pics on your pepipoo thread as that's the best place to win the case. Most of us go over there too - I am SchoolRunMum over on pepipoo.

[Deleted User]

taffy056 wrote: »

With respects tricky, if it was me I would go to www.pepipoo.com and ask advice there, there could be problems with the pcn or the way they have so far handled the appeal, there could also be problems with the traffic act covering that area. So OP if you want to fight this I advise going to pepipoo and creating a new thread in the council section. Follow the FAQ on there about uploading images to show your pcn they need to see both sides of it.

Do you mean TRO, there isn't a "traffic act" on each street :rotfl:

RENEGADE_2

TRO - Traffic Regulation Order

alex253

Hi,

First of all, many thanks for your help on this.

I went back to the place where the ticket was issued this afternoon, and as you can see on the photos attached, the signs are very hard to see. One is blocked by a hanging basket and the other by a pedestrian signal light pole. This is also at a nasty turn right junction where many people just walk across when the red man is showing.

Would it be worth trying to appeal it on this?

Also, I uploaded the back of the PCN.

The sign is still missing from where I had my ticket issued even though Birmingham City Council have apparently arranged a site visit.

I noticed other areas where hanging baskets are really badly obscuring the signs which I think is very unfair.

Thanks again.

Alex

alex253

Links

photobucket.com/albums/s226/alexweaver253/DSC01568_zps4cca4d6a.jpg

photobucket.com/albums/s226/alexweaver253/DSC01566_zps32ffe866.jpg

photobucket.com/albums/s226/alexweaver253/DSC01560_zps5b51c34a.jpg

photobucket.com/albums/s226/alexweaver253/DSC01589_zps0703a2b2.jpg

taffy056

Clickable Links

alex253 wrote: »

Links

http://photobucket.com/albums/s226/alexweaver253/DSC01568_zps4cca4d6a.jpg

http://photobucket.com/albums/s226/alexweaver253/DSC01566_zps32ffe866.jpg

http://photobucket.com/albums/s226/alexweaver253/DSC01560_zps5b51c34a.jpg

alex253

thank you

Coupon-mad

The back of the PCN looks compliant. Try these links if they work:

http://photobucket.com/albums/s226/alexweaver253/DSC01568_zps4cca4d6a.jpg

http://photobucket.com/albums/s226/alexweaver253/DSC01566_zps32ffe866.jpg

http://photobucket.com/albums/s226/alexweaver253/DSC01560_zps5b51c34a.jpg

back of PCN:

http://photobucket.com/albums/s226/alexweaver253/DSC01589_zps0703a2b2.jpg


I would appeal as those signs are significantly obscured. Have you posted on pepipoo yet? They can help you with expertise on this appeal.