Anyone else been refused tap water in restaurant

motorguy

thefreckle wrote: »

All reasonable points. I'm not sure I'd agree that a lot of analysis has been put into it though.

Given how difficult it is to run a successful restaurant, do you think successful restaurants dont analyse their costs and impacts of a particular activity?

thefreckle wrote: »

Someone also mentioned earlier that soft drinks produce a much higher profit margin than alcholic drinks. I'm fairly sure that food also produces a high profit margin. I'd rather have that money in my pocket than someone elses even if it means giving a few glasses of "free luke warm tap water" (as opposed to the free, ice cold tap water I serve in my ficticious establishment).

From memory overheads / food cost / gross profit are roughly 1/3 1/3 1/3 in terms of overall percentage of turnover.

So £5s worth of meat and veg will sell for roughly £14.95

Soft drinks it will be much higher. You might be paying 20p for something that you resell at £1.50, so sell 3 soft drinks and you've made as much as you have on preparing and selling the dinner.

I keep specifically saying "luke warm tap water", as i suspect a lot of those expecting "free" water can only really justify it if they say they just want room temp tap water. Once you get into the realms of adding ice and lemon theres clearly a cost, which of course doesnt sit well in they "water is free" arguement

thefreckle wrote: »

I'm also fairly sure a group of "free water" diners eating a meal would still add a positive contribution to my costs even when the negligible cost of a few free glasses of water are included (and even if they were eating off the specials board). The preference obviously is a table consuming multiple soft drinks per person but that won't always be the case. I think most restaurant owners realise that.

But the costs of provide "free" water arent neglegible - apart from still generating overheads, you could be very well doing yourself out of very important profit in missed drink sales.

thefreckle wrote: »

In your last paragraph you mentioned freeing up tables - you're assuming that a restaurant is operating at full capacity - I doubt the majority would be in that position. That being the case, a few free glasses of water to get the attractive margin on food is a small cost to pay in my book. Like I said, it will still be a positive contribution to the costs of the restaurant.

I would say most restaurants generate 80% of their revenue over a matter of a relatively narrow time window on a friday and saturday night, at which time they will aim to be full. Most good restaurants are.

So someone eating frugally and insisting on sipping down a glass of luke warm water could well be costing them money in lost revenue.

As i said, i dont particularly mind either way - i dont judge a good meal and night out on whether or not i've had "free" tap water.

motorguy

almillar wrote: »

I take it that everyone who thinks restaurants can charge for tap water is happy to pay water rates? After all, water isn't free...
I'd suggest anyone feeling ripped off by NOT taking the water, and subsidising others, should take that free water and use it.

We do pay water rates as part of our rates, which is part of our own "overheads"

almillar wrote: »

Water is not like free poppodoms or bread or prawn crackers, it's kindof necessary for eating.

But likewise i dont take the hump because one indian restaurant charges for poppadums and another one gives them free. I view it as an overall experience.

almillar wrote: »

motorguy - you are or were in the motor trade I think - what's your opinion on all these women getting bunches of flowers with their cars? We men are subsidising them! I won't stand for it, I'm wearing a dress next time I buy a car to get my money's worth!

All built in to the dealers overheads, so you're paying for them. Typically any time i've bought a new car where its the policy of the dealer to give a gift, they've either made a point of giving the flowers to my wife OR they'll give an alternative gift for men.

And to draw an analogy to this thread, the last time i bought a car from a franchised dealer (last year) they didnt give me or my wife flowers, however that doesnt mean i wont go back there, as to me its about the overall experience and price paid relative to products purchased thats important to me.

motorguy

adouglasmhor wrote: »

I thought all those overheads were already factored in

I would suspect that most restaurants look at their profit per head or per table, rather than per specific item.

So providing something for free that they had otherwise budgeted to make profit on (free water as opposed to profit on a soft drink) then that will reduce their overall profitability.

Its like the deals you see on everywhere these days - "two main courses for £20" or a half price groupon deal. They rarely include the drink as they've built in to the deal the profit from the drinks and side orders that most people will take.

adouglasmhor

motorguy wrote: »

I would suspect that most restaurants look at their profit per head or per table, rather than per specific item.

So providing something for free that they had otherwise budgeted to make profit on (free water as opposed to profit on a soft drink) then that will reduce their overall profitability.

Its like the deals you see on everywhere these days - "two main courses for £20" or a half price groupon deal. They rarely include the drink as they've built in to the deal the profit from the drinks and side orders that most people will take.

Profit was budgeted per cover where I worked, not everyone wanted water, and of those that did maybe one of the group wanted it and the rest wanted alcoholic drinks or softs or tea/coffee.

It was maybe less than 1 in 10 orders asked for it. Our place was atypical in that food subsidised the bar. One extra glass in the washer made very little difference and at busy times a jug at the dummy was used to fill a glass for anyone that wanted, like I said before we factored it in with the rest of the overheads, condiments, cleaning, leccy etc and it is miniscule, on the other hand people often eat more if they feel welcome and others in their group would order more and stay longer if everyone was happy.

This was before it became compulsory to supply it anyway on licensed premises here in Scotland. But it was compulsory if you had a music licence so we had to do it anyway.

jouef

adouglasmhor wrote: »

Well you missed a relevant bit this might help

Thanks for the optician link, but specs not needed - I think clarity of meaning is what's required. I and another replier took post no. 154 to refer to surcharging paying diners (a similar point to no.120), but perhaps you meant tap water drinkers.

adouglasmhor

jouef wrote: »

Thanks for the optician link, but specs not needed - I think clarity of meaning is what's required. I and another replier took post no. 154 to refer to surcharging paying diners (a similar point to no.120), but perhaps you meant tap water drinkers.

It's post 160 you seem to have missed. If you don't need an optician maybe the sun is shining on your screen and it's blinds you need?

jouef

adouglasmhor wrote: »

It's post 160 you seem to have missed. If you don't need an optician maybe the sun is shining on your screen and it's blinds you need?

Nope, didn't miss 160; I was commenting on how overheads are apportioned but 160 only addresses what might be included in them.

bargainbeater

The Real China in Poole charged me 60p for a glass of tap water, even though I was also buying a bottle of wine.

Furthermore the wine was corked and after my friend sampled it, the extreamly bad tempered and rude barman refused to give her a clean glass!

Needless to say, we have not returned and take every possible opportunity to put others off ever going near the place as the food was terrible too.

jenheiffer

Well said, bargainbeater. Name and shame!:T

woodsey1982

Yes! Please name and shame restaurants that are 500 miles or so away! :mad:

I would have to travel through 4 countries to get there by car... :rotfl::rotfl: