parking in Marked Bay

pkvn

Parked at my local train station car park when i went to London the other day. Came back to find a Parking Charge notice stating reason for fine was due to my not parking within the marked bay. The notice stated Photos taken. I am a regular user of the station Car Park so know i would not have parked incorrectly. I have asked them to provide the photographic evidence to show my 'bad' parking. If I am at fault, I am happy to pay but there are no signs in the car park to state users will be penalised for not parking in marked bays.
where do i stand with this?

Stephen_Leak

Thanks for starting a new thread.

Who issued the ticket? Who does it say to send any money to? Does it mention "Railway Byelaw 14"?

Coupon-mad

pkvn wrote: »

Parked at my local train station car park when i went to London the other day. Came back to find a Parking Charge notice stating reason for fine was due to my not parking within the marked bay. The notice stated Photos taken. I am a regular user of the station Car Park so know i would not have parked incorrectly. I have asked them to provide the photographic evidence to show my 'bad' parking.

If I am at fault, I am happy to pay but there are no signs in the car park to state users will be penalised for not parking in marked bays.
where do i stand with this?

:eek:
No, please don't pay, not if it's NCP or Meteor or CP Plus or other private firm.

It was not a fine unless it actually says the word 'penalty'. And only then if it was issued directly by the Train Operator (such as Northern Rail) or Council. If not then ignore it all and the letters which will follow (see our 3rd from top thread for a preview of the junk mail to expect).

pkvn

the notice has East Midlands Trains at the bottom and it does mention Railway Byelaw 14 or T&Cs. says to make payment to East Midlands Trains and send to Nottingham Railway station.

Coupon-mad

pkvn wrote: »

the notice has East Midlands Trains at the bottom and it does mention Railway Byelaw 14 or T&Cs. says to make payment to East Midlands Trains and send to Nottingham Railway station.

Right, that's unusual and is different. You haven't said if it contains the word 'Penalty' in the Charge Notice'? If so and it's not issued by a private firm then it's a real one - but could still be appealable or even not supported by the signs in the car park.

As far as I know the bylaw does not extend to 'parking within bay lines', only the purchase of a ticket. So I assume your Penalty says something vague like ''Contrary to Railway Byelaw 14 or terms and conditions".

So in your case the ticket is trying to communicate to you that you have breached some 'displayed terms' (NOT the bylaw). So, in the station car park are there any displayed t&cs which expressly state that you must park in a marked bay only? Have a look, take pictures, speak to station staff, and appeal.

See this pepipoo thread, the person checked and there were no displayed signs which would have warned him about his alleged breach so he got the station manager to confirm that in a note, and he appealed (never heard the result as he was a newbie, not a regular poster, and he never updated the thread in the end):

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=56412&st=0

It would be a good idea to post about this on pepipoo and include a pic of your ticket and a pic of the signs in the car park, as well as a link to that similar thread.

Bottom line is, unless it's being enforced under bylaws then they are just trying to dress up a civil breach as if it was a bylaw matter. As I say, I think only 'non purchase of a ticket' is in the bylaw and you are not guilty of that. But the trouble is we also know that some Train Operating Companies (TOCs) do follow up these penalties even when it's unsupported by a bylaw. Northern Rail are one but I am not sure if East Midlands Trains do. If so you may have to appeal all the way and try to convince a magistrate that this isn't even a bylaw offence, but that would be a big ask. See what pepipoo posters say.

pkvn

just to give an update...i had asked the penalty office to send me the Photographic evidence and they have turned around to say that this is only released when it goes to court. so next step is to visit the station and see if there are any signs that state not parking in marked bays is an offence. just very frustrating as am really really sure i parked in the allocated bay but i feel i either have to take it to court and risk it or pay the fine. either way it feels like i am losing.

BASFORDLAD

pkvn wrote: »

just to give an update...i had asked the penalty office to send me the Photographic evidence and they have turned around to say that this is only released when it goes to court. so next step is to visit the station and see if there are any signs that state not parking in marked bays is an offence. just very frustrating as am really really sure i parked in the allocated bay but i feel i either have to take it to court and risk it or pay the fine. either way it feels like i am losing.

Dont give up yet

I would post up on pepipoo as this is not the same as a private parking ticket, see what they advise

AlexisV

There is no appeals process, but we've seen cases where they've reduced the charge when sent a grovelling letter.

Also remember to ring and complain next time your train is late. Some free rail vouchers may soften the blow.

RENEGADE_2

Just a minute, can we see this supposed "penalty" ticket?
Just hide any personal details such as your registration and anything else pertaining to your motor.

I have a sneaky feeling this might be one of those famous packages contrived to deceive.

South West Trains tend to have their car parks managed by CP Plus. You don't know it is CP Plus until you read the small print at the bottom of their signage. Their artwork exalts South West Trains as if it were they delivering the message, that and all their 'Railway Byelaws apply' malarkey.

In a proper case of breaching Byelaw 14, the Train Operating Company (TOC) issues the ticket. I need to know everything written on your little paper. Do you find the words "County Court", "Civil" or "Debt Collectors" anywhere?

RENEGADE_2

Also, WHO is handling appeals?

Fergie76

And if it is a 'real' ticket should the rail company not provide evidence (i.e. phots) at the earliest possible opportunity in order for the accused to build their defence? Could this not be classed as withholding evidence?