Karndean/Amtico - anyone got it?

debbie42

mmdaviney wrote: »

sounds too good to be true

Actually, it sounds more like an advert. Reported.

Roy_Bold

I too have had pretty rubbish service from Amtico- actually speaking to anyone in 'customer service' is a bit of a feat in itself! If your Amtico flooring is dark, and the scratches in the floor are white, then applying a couple of coats of the Amtico floor dressing will certainly improve the appearance of the floor. I ordered some from http://www.birbek.com/groups/amtico-flooring.html - it was about the lowest price and it came next day.

Roy_Bold

Try http://www.birbek.com/groups/amtico-flooring.html. The cleaner is about £5 with free next day delivery if you order more than £25 worth of stuff.

djp87

Hi,i am the owner of a company called flawless floor fitters.it is a family run bussiness and myself and my brother fit the floors.I am the hardfloor fitter which includes fitting karndean and amtico.I am an advanced Karndean fitter,which involved travelling to the main karndean showroom and doing a 3 day course.I have fitted both karndean and amtico and i have to say i rate karndean alot more than amtico.I believe that with amtico you are just paying for the fancy name.the wear layer of amtico is better thn karndean but i find that when butted up together amtico tends to have a lot of gaps,wheres karndean seems to marry up nicely.I rate the van gogh range.

h.cowell

We have textured Karndean tiles in our kitchen and conservatory which were laid 10 years ago. I don't remember the cost but i know they were fairly expensive but we were told they were worth the investment... and we're SO glad we followed the advice. They are brilliant! We love them. I have a young family so they get lots of wear but the texture hides any scratches there might be. We always get comments from people about how great they look. There has been no fading in the conservatory, and I run the vacuum over them (which I probably shouldn't) and haven't notice any problems with doing that. I do a gentle mop now and again (as little liquid a possible) and that's it. The only thing I would say is that the surface is more matt than it used to be, but really they still look good so that doesn't bother me

Hope that helps.

ETA I just thought of something else - I don't know about Amtico, but our Karndean tiles are warmer to walk on barefoot than laminate or ceramic, which is something I like about them.

PeteMc

I have Amtico in over 50% of the house and highly recommend it. Scratches are not easily visible and it's easy to clean.

Like h.cowell and the comment on Karndean, Amtico is also warmer to walk on than our ceramic tiles in kitchen/conservatory.

Scott42

The previous comments by disco dale are absolutely correct.

However what is critical with both Amtico and Karndean is the quality of the installation.

The floor preparation is everything and an approved installer will use the correct acrylic smoothing compound or plywood for a given situation.

In most cases 6mm plywood will suffice, in other situations 9mm or even 12mm plywood may be a preffered option.
There are many grades of plywood the cheapest of which will de laminate or blister over time. Good quality Brazilian or Malayan hardwood plywood can be over 30% more expensive than a cheaper equivalent.

There are many brands of acrylic smoothing compound and also types, some are designed to go over porous surfaces, some can be installed over stone or marble (marble or stone should be mechanically cleaned first to remove ground in oils, seals or grease) almost all of them require a primer to be used first to guarantee a good bond to your sub floor.

Amtico and Karndean do not offer massive discounts to individual retailers. So get several quotes, if a company or person seems a great deal cheaper it is probably because they are not including the same quality of materials or that they are going to miss out a process that another quote includes.

You should ask the person or company that you are purchasing the floor what processes they are using to achieve a smooth finish before they install your floor.

I own a company that supplies and installs both brands of flooring.

Amtico has an advantage over Karndean in that it has a thicker wear layer, the material tends to be harder, all of the tiles are the same thickness and they offer a huge variety of tile sizes and cutting options. Allowing a more bespoke design.
Karndean are restricted to set tile sizes and as their products vary in thickness so not all are compatable with each other.
The backing of Karndean contains a filler that makes the product softer than Amtico and as a result dents more easily.
Some of the higher end Karndean products however are, like Amtico very realistic.
I will also state for the record that even with the cheapest of these products i have never seen it wear out in a domestic situation.
Both products can scratch and dent, they are not indestructable, if you were told this then the person that sold to you over sold the product.

Colour choice is also important a metallic, black or dark floor will show micro scratches more than other colours. A white or pale floor will show scuff marks.
If you are silly enough to drag heavy items across the floor or not install felt pads on furniture that you move regularly then you will damage both products. This would also apply to wood, ceramic, porcelain or stone. They all have advantages or dissadvantages over other products.

The bottom line is an Amtico or Karndean floor can technically be amongst the most difficult products to install well. Companies that specialise in these types of floors have a wealth of experience and have pretty much seen most situations.
Either product correctly installed and maintained will give you many years of good service and should look as good as the day they were laid.
The horror stories that you will read associated with these products are usually due to a poor installation or a customer not given the correct maintenance advice when they bought the floor.

I have a client recently that did not want to pay the associated installation costs, she spent £2,500.00 on an Amtico floor that we supplied and had a guy install the floor that her builder recommended.
The upshot of this cost saving has meant 6 months later her kitchen floor has been replaced at a cost of £4,600.00, we had to strip the Amtico floor and the acrylic smoothing compound and completely replace the floor and all because the fitter did not prime the sub floor first (about an hours work and a service we include in the price). She has now asked us to replace the Amtico in 3 bathrooms as well!!
A floor that would have cost our client £4,750.00 Installed will now cost her £8,900.00.

Please make sure you use a company or person that knows what they are doing.
Your first question should not be how much will it cost, but how good are your fitters and can i see a recent example of your work.
Both Amtico and Karndean can provide you with companies local to you that will do an excellent job.

All floors are an investment regardless of the product type. More often than not the cheapest quote will end up being the most expensive.

I have no agenda here other than to set the record straight as all too often there are far too many unqualified opinions rather than genuine professional advice.

Scott42

In answer to the comments regarding thermo plastic tiles.

Do not under any circumstances lay an Amtico or Karndean floor over them.

Your floor will only be as good as the bond your TP tiles have with the sub floor, the new floor could react with the existing floor and discolour (called plasticiser migration)
If some of your TP tiles are loose then how long before more break loose under your Amtico or Karndean?
Remember by covering the existing floor with an impervious product could cause it to blow and become unstuck.
Any company that suggests that a small patch repair with a 1/2 and 1/2 smoothing compound has no business installing these products

Scott42

The previous comments by disco dale are absolutely correct.

However what is critical with both Amtico and Karndean is the quality of the installation.

The floor preparation is everything and an approved installer will use the correct acrylic smoothing compound or plywood for a given situation.

In most cases 6mm plywood will suffice, in other situations 9mm or even 12mm plywood may be a preffered option.
There are many grades of plywood the cheapest of which will de laminate or blister over time. Good quality Brazilian or Malayan hardwood plywood can be over 30% more expensive than a cheaper equivalent.

There are many brands of acrylic smoothing compound and also types, some are designed to go over porous surfaces, some can be installed over stone or marble (marble or stone should be mechanically cleaned first to remove ground in oils, seals or grease) almost all of them require a primer to be used first to guarantee a good bond to your sub floor.

Amtico and Karndean do not offer massive discounts to individual retailers. So get several quotes, if a company or person seems a great deal cheaper it is probably because they are not including the same quality of materials or that they are going to miss out a process that another quote includes.

You should ask the person or company that you are purchasing the floor what processes they are using to achieve a smooth finish before they install your floor.

I own a company that supplies and installs both brands of flooring.

Amtico has an advantage over Karndean in that it has a thicker wear layer, the material tends to be harder, all of the tiles are the same thickness and they offer a huge variety of tile sizes and cutting options. Allowing a more bespoke design.
Karndean are restricted to set tile sizes and as their products vary in thickness so not all are compatable with each other.
The backing of Karndean contains a filler that makes the product softer than Amtico and as a result dents more easily.
Some of the higher end Karndean products however are, like Amtico very realistic.
I will also state for the record that even with the cheapest of these products i have never seen it wear out in a domestic situation.
Both products can scratch and dent, they are not indestructable, if you were told this then the person that sold to you over sold the product.

Colour choice is also important a metallic, black or dark floor will show micro scratches more than other colours. A white or pale floor will show scuff marks.
If you are silly enough to drag heavy items across the floor or not install felt pads on furniture that you move regularly then you will damage both products. This would also apply to wood, ceramic, porcelain or stone. They all have advantages or dissadvantages over other products.

The bottom line is an Amtico or Karndean floor can technically be amongst the most difficult products to install well. Companies that specialise in these types of floors have a wealth of experience and have pretty much seen most situations.
Either product correctly installed and maintained will give you many years of good service and should look as good as the day they were laid.
The horror stories that you will read associated with these products are usually due to a poor installation or a customer not given the correct maintenance advice when they bought the floor.

I have a client recently that did not want to pay the associated installation costs, she spent £2,500.00 on an Amtico floor that we supplied and had a guy install the floor that her builder recommended.
The upshot of this cost saving has meant 6 months later her kitchen floor has been replaced at a cost of £4,600.00, we had to strip the Amtico floor and the acrylic smoothing compound and completely replace the floor and all because the fitter did not prime the sub floor first (about an hours work and a service we include in the price). She has now asked us to replace the Amtico in 3 bathrooms as well!!
A floor that would have cost our client £4,750.00 Installed will now cost her £8,900.00.

Please make sure you use a company or person that knows what they are doing.
Your first question should not be how much will it cost, but how good are your fitters and can i see a recent example of your work.
Both Amtico and Karndean can provide you with companies local to you that will do an excellent job.

All floors are an investment regardless of the product type. More often than not the cheapest quote will end up being the most expensive.

I have no agenda here other than to set the record straight as all too often there are far too many unqualified opinions rather than genuine professional advice.

Tommo781

I came across this thread simply because I know someone who has just had Karndean fitted in their hall. So I thought I would just put my view across.

We have lived in our house nearly 30 years. Our downstairs L shaped hallway is a thoroughfare from the front door to all the other downstairs rooms. Therefore it gets very heavy traffic. After our third carpet needed replacing, we decided to look into other flooring.

We chose Amtico, and had a bespoke Art Deco type pattern with a border. We got it from John Lewis, who employed a specialist to design and lay it. There are many different sized tiles, the final effect is stunning, and we think timeless.

We have had that Amtico hallway for 15 years now, and it still looks as good as the day it was laid, despite heavy wear.

I have recently seen a hallway freshly laid in Karndean. I can honestly say it doesn't look the quality of our 15 year old Amtico. The surface feels softer, and I think it will dent easily.

For me, it may cost more, but Amtico is the superior product of the two.