MSE News: Charity calls for council tax reform

CTA_2

lincroft1710 wrote: »

Council Tax isn't a payment for services, it is a tax on property values which goes towards funding local government spending. The domestic rating system which was in existence from the 19th century (or even earlier) until 1990 was also structured so that those living in more expensive houses paid higher rates.

The answer to your question is that parliament (in its wisdom) has decided that that is how the Council Tax system will operate.

But where is the revenue collected spent? Services provided in respect of policing, refuse collection etc (i.e. services provided to taxpayers).

Calculated with reference to (historic) property values justified through services rendered.

Many thanks for the part in bold above. I knew I was missing something obvious, but fortunately you pointed that out for me.

Credit-Crunched

Council tax based on income?

That sounds like a great idea, lets call it income tax.

Ok so let me get this straight, myself and my partner live in a 3 bed house, generate minimal waste and earn £60k per annum, I should pay a percentage of my income to the council.

This is on top of my 40% income tax and 40% tax on interest.

This is on top of my huge petorl bill to commute to work everyday.

My neighbours with 3 children, 6 black bags a week, on benefits so household repairs paid for by the council should pay LESS than me?

So after my significant contribution via NI, Income Tax, VAT, Fuel Tax, Road Tax and minimal burden (no nhs as private health care, 1 black bin bag a week and house maintained myself) I should foot more of a bill than the family paying in nothing and taking out everything?

I do agree I should pay more tax (to fund the needy and genuinly vulnerable people, not the lazy and workshy) however please dont sting me again through an unfair percetange taxation on my home.

CTA_2

mr_jrt wrote: »

Largely because the money to pay for those that cannot afford their council tax needs to come from somewhere.

Just cut back on those services then if we can't afford them!

Bloated local and national schemes being run inefficiently are to blame, not the wealthy!

CTA_2

Credit-Crunched wrote: »

Council tax based on income?

That sounds like a great idea, lets call it income tax.

Ok so let me get this straight, myself and my partner live in a 3 bed house, generate minimal waste and earn £60k per annum, I should pay a percentage of my income to the council.

This is on top of my 40% income tax and 40% tax on interest.

This is on top of my huge petorl bill to commute to work everyday.

My neighbours with 3 children, 6 black bags a week, on benefits so household repairs paid for by the council should pay LESS than me?

So after my significant contribution via NI, Income Tax, VAT, Fuel Tax, Road Tax and minimal burden (no nhs as private health care, 1 black bin bag a week and house maintained myself) I should foot more of a bill than the family paying in nothing and taking out everything?

I do agree I should pay more tax (to fund the needy and genuinly vulnerable people, not the lazy and workshy) however please dont sting me again through an unfair percetange taxation on my home.

:T

Well said. Typical of this current culture we have where we expect others to fund our needs.

smithpaulh

I am totally opposed to any housing tax that is based on house value. The ludicrous increase in house values have no relationship to the income of the householder. In my case my household income is £16k less than in 2002 when my house was worth half its current value.

molerat

Personally I would love CT to be income based as I currently pay more per month in CT than I do in Income Tax. It seems that Alex & the Raving Loony Jock Party want to do it at about 3-4.5% so that would see me quids in by at least £1000 pa but won't until after the independence vote as it may sink their chances of winning.

I would also like to see road tax shifted onto fuel making it a green & fair tax which would also be a personal win

diamonds

The whole system has been a mess since it started, the defragmentation of NHS care to local authorities just further made a mess of it all & to save NHS money for care in the community whilst we all then pay for it AFTER tax.

Simply like housing benefit, we all locally pay for others to claim both benefits and then pay to administer such !

It should all come out a national DWP budget or not at all, and councils should only recieve a (£100?) token rent payment on local authority housing maintainance & perhaps a (£50) CT-esque token DWP payment where all persons in that on low income/DWP/tax credit benefits.

As for per house, crap - if you want to use your local lesuire centre, have street lightening, library, parks then ALL working people in a house over a certain limit should have to pay a token (£50) to its local authority through a proof of entiltement card like the Scottish Entitlement Card, token payment is deducted via PAYE before tax for the majority.

Hand back ALL care services to the NHS instead not private care homes which cost to administer, pay & inspect instead of administrating it at high costs to mainly local aurhorities.

As for NHS CERTIFICATES for free/reduced health costs, place it on the local authority entiltlement card, NHS assisted travel should be covered by income and paid by the DWP NOT budgets from local health care trusts (another fragmentation in itself). NHS entiltlement is automatically computerised and applied by HMCR or DWP based on held details with NO human interaction needed, DWP claimiants get legal aid & keep reduced entiltlement but full CT/HB until tribunal rulings.

We are spending billions on administration and not using the technology many businesses save million apon millions on & putting that into frontline undefragmented services.

We once had simple, NHS & Social Security acts, all fragmented by legisaltion and delivery now...that costs us to provide, administer & to challenge such fragmented bodies via tribunals & courts....all to those in the most needs detriment.


Local Services Entiltlement Tax - name it what it is, those who have a certain income pay for it, those who dont, dont get access to any non essiential services until such time PAYE pays the local authority, those who need very cheap supported consessionary access get it, those with long term health & disabilities get free travel on bus & train with local authority recreational activities free to include them with recovery & a vaild sense of being a person, a certain number of this group could easily return to work in their own time when ready after being FULLY supported outdoors by local authorities not when DWP pays someone to say they are.

As I said its a public body defragmented mess, with no independent complaints investigation from the word go, such a body could issue directives on case findings/rulings instead of clogging up another public body - HM Courts & Tribunal to GREAT expense to AGAIN the taxpayer - YOU !

lincroft1710

CTA wrote: »

But where is the revenue collected spent? Services provided in respect of policing, refuse collection etc (i.e. services provided to taxpayers).

Calculated with reference to (historic) property values justified through services rendered.

Many thanks for the part in bold above. I knew I was missing something obvious, but fortunately you pointed that out for me.

Add in education (I think 60% of income from CT), council staff and councillors' salaries, property costs and you can quickly see that most of the money contributed via CT is not spent on services/amenities which the majority of CT payers directly benefit.

There was an idea floated in the 1970s that education costs should be borne by central government.

Over the past 20 years Parliament could have altered the ratio between what the lower and higher bands pay quite easily by means of a Statutory Instrument. The fact this has never been done shows that the various governments believe those in the most expensive houses should only have to pay double the amount a Band D house pays.

The present system of local government financing is well, well overdue. However whether there is a revised CT system, with the same/more bands, based on current house prices and a revised ratio of amounts payable between the bands, a form of poll tax, a local income tax, or that central government allocate and dictate how much councils can spend by increasing Income Tax, VAT, Customs Duties etc, one thing is certain..

Any new system won't please everybody and is bound to disadvantage some

CTA_2

lincroft1710 wrote: »

Add in education (I think 60% of income from CT), council staff and councillors' salaries, property costs and you can quickly see that most of the money contributed via CT is not spent on services/amenities which the majority of CT payers directly benefit.

There was an idea floated in the 1970s that education costs should be borne by central government.

The present system of local government financing is well, well overdue. However whether there is a revised CT system, with the same/more bands, based on current house prices and a revised ratio of amounts payable between the bands, a form of poll tax, a local income tax, or that central government allocate and dictate how much councils can spend by increasing Income Tax, VAT, Customs Duties etc, one thing is certain..

The new system won't please everybody and is bound to disadvantage some

I don't have an issue with paying more, as long as the system is FAIR.

If you read my posts, it is a fee in respect of services "from which are are eligible" to benefit. Whether or not you take the services is another matter, but council tax is charge in respect of services provided. That much is certain.

Why do we need two taxes on income? It would be more efficient to roll it all up into one tax rather than have two collection mechanisms for taxing the same income twice.

lincroft1710

CTA wrote: »

Why do we need two taxes on income? It would be more efficient to roll it all up into one tax rather than have two collection mechanisms for taxing the same income twice.

Good question. But you really need to ask the politicians. In fact why not ask your MP? Although I'd doubt you would get a very logical reply.