MSE News: Charity calls for council tax reform

lincroft1710

Quote from article

Research carried out by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation reveals those living in a £320,000 house will typically pay only twice as much as those living in a £68,000 property, despite it being four times as valuable.

This has always been the case and the amount of research needed takes about 1 minute. Just read the amounts payable for each band from any council website.

CTA_2

lincroft1710 wrote: »

Quote from article

Research carried out by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation reveals those living in a £320,000 house will typically pay only twice as much as those living in a £68,000 property, despite it being four times as valuable.

This has always been the case and the amount of research needed takes about 1 minute. Just read the amounts payable for each band from any council website.

but why should a family living in a more valuable home pay more for equal services?

Suarez

CTA wrote: »

Cannot ever see how or why council tax should be based on income. It is a tax in respect of services provided and those services are provided equally to each household.

Income tax is progressive, not every tax has to be progressive. Indeed, a "good" tax should be one people agree with.

What does how much i earn affect the services I receive from the council? If anything, earning more would probably equate to fewer services used.

Spot on sir!

CIS

Spilt Council tax into 2 parts - one part paid by everyhouse (To cover things such as street lighting, refuse collection etc, ie: things that are required on a per household basis). This amount should be static
and the other part on a per person basis to cover the services provided by the council.

At heart it's pretty much there - council tax is based on 50% property and 50% person with the 50% person part being based on 2 occupiers .

iscamaid

iancummings wrote: »

NO, when will people realise that having a house that has gone up in value over the last 15 years doesn't mean I have any more disposable income. I struggled to buy a house in a decent area, the price of the house has rocketed (nothing to do with me) and my salary has gone down.

Totally agree, over 20 years husband and I have bought and sold 4 homes. In each case we have grafted, decorated, put in kitchens and bathrooms and done without holidays and even food (back in the days of 16% mortgages) to get by. Consequently we own a nice house in a good area. Neither of us are however on good wages and struggle to pay the bills as it is. The fact we have a decent home is not because we are loaded or come from wealthy families it is purely down to luck of the housing markets years of bloody hard work. Why should we pay more council tax than people earning twice our wages with a smaller house and less outgoings!

lincroft1710

CTA wrote: »

but why should a family living in a more valuable home pay more for equal services?

Council Tax isn't a payment for services, it is a tax on property values which goes towards funding local government spending. The domestic rating system which was in existence from the 19th century (or even earlier) until 1990 was also structured so that those living in more expensive houses paid higher rates.

The answer to your question is that parliament (in its wisdom) has decided that that is how the Council Tax system will operate.

Randvegeta

Unless there is no alternative available housing with lower council tax rates, it seems to me council tax is about as fair as VAT.

VAT is a totally avoidable tax because if you can always choose NOT to spend that money.

IF, and I really do stress the IF, there is alternative, cheaper accommodation, then higher rates of council could be seen as 'reasonable' given it would then be a choice of said person to pay extra to live in such luxurious accommodation.

It would be totally UNFAIR for the rich guy living in the small cheap house to pay more council tax just because he earns more. That's what income tax is for. You can't sting the poor (ahem, I mean rich) man twice! That would be wrong.

So council tax hikes would really only be unfair and unreasonable if there are no alternatives. If there are alternatives, and you cannot afford to live where you are living, then you are living beyond your means. Sell the house/flat, buy a cheaper place, and pocket the difference! Otherwise, stop moaning.

But if there are no alternatives, then by all means. Complain to your hears content. That would be the only case where it would be unfair.

On a side note. I use the terms fair and unfair lightly. I feel progressive tax is discriminatory. Taxes should be flat. Services and benefits made available to everyone. If you are entitled to free health care, education, etc. etc. but choose to go private, then fine. That's your choice. But paying more because you can 'afford' to pay more? That seems wrong. So don't pick at my choice of words regarding whats fair and not fair. I am saying it is fair, relative to say.. VAT.

Butterfly_Brain

molerat wrote: »

Here's a good idea, a per person tax so everyone pays equally for the services they are eligible to receive. As the poorer end of the spectrum generally consume a greater amount of the services then it will be a fair tax.

So you want to go back to the poll tax?
What if there are four people in a house, one working full time, one part time, one in college and one disabled? So one person on a low wage will bear the brunt of the poll tax, this was why there were riots in the 80's

Our Council extortion fee is £1,560 :mad: per year for a band C property. A proportion of that gets funnelled into Northern councils so that their rates are cheaper.
All of the jobs around here (approx 25,000) have gone as most of the manufacturing has gone to other countries or warehouse jobs have moved up North so that the companies can get away with paying a lower rate of pay. I am talking in the last ten years, most jobs are now to do with service industries which are low paid.
There are approx 2.75 million able bodied unemployed with approx 3 million sick and disabled soon to have to look for work so nearly 6 million people looking for work in a country that has by by the government's figures only around 500,000 jobs to fill.
I would prefer to scrap council tax and have any extra 1p or 2p on income tax and the councils are then allotted a certain amount of money by the government. This way the councils that are wasting money and paying their leaders hundreds of thousands a year in wages and over blown expenses can be reined in.

System

I've just had this brilliant idea - what about a Poll Tax?

mr_jrt

CTA wrote: »

Cannot ever see how or why council tax should be based on income. It is a tax in respect of services provided and those services are provided equally to each household.

Income tax is progressive, not every tax has to be progressive. Indeed, a "good" tax should be one people agree with.

What does how much i earn affect the services I receive from the council? If anything, earning more would probably equate to fewer services used.

Largely because the money to pay for those that cannot afford their council tax needs to come from somewhere.