Car insurance non-disclosure and other rants

Gossy68

Any advice/opinions/experiences are welcome on the following car insurance related issues:

To say I don't really like insurers is an understatement. We pay them to take on our risks then they'll find any and every opportunity to trip us up and avoid paying out when the needs arises. When they do pay they raise the premium. They trick us into doubling up on cover e.g. mobile phone/home insurance or ideally having both husband and wife with separate life assurance policies capable of paying off mortgage twice over. As I rant, they are no doubt busy lobbying the government to make cycling insurance compulsory for all individuals....

Anyway, I'd be interested in your comments on the following motor vehicle insurance related issues:

1 - Why do insurers insist on asking us tricky and embarrassing questions regarding the exact details of our claims history when they can go straight to an insurance database/bureau and get all our history (admin charges added to policy) and avoid mistakes, confusion, innocent or deliberate non-disclosure scenarios, oh, and fraud.

2- same as above but this time for points and driving offences. We give permission for them to approach DVLA directly to get all our points and convictions again avoiding any mistakes and non-disclosure scenarios, with any admin charges added to our policy.

3- if my points on driving license are expired/spent (e.g. older than 5 years for speeding) then I do not need to disclose them to an insurer under rehabilitation of offenders act 197whatever or otherwise as they are SPENT i.e. I have paid the penalty, points added to my license, did the crime but served my time etc etc, right?

4- Say if I get into a non-disclosure argument for not declaring a speeding offence/points why can the insurer refuse to pay out on claim that has nothing whatsoever to do with speeding. Say a 2mph shunt in a car park?

5- oh yes, why do I have to keep them informed about the value of my unmodified vehicle. I get my brand new vehicle insured then find out 5 years later the value is still the price I paid for it at the time and NOT the current market value – with policy adjusted accordingly every year. It beggars belief that in 2012 with computers, trade databases etc they ask ME what the value of my car is?

dacouch

1) Accessing the database for each customer could add extra work and therefore costs to the Insurer which would affect premiums.

2) Accessing the DVLA database is relatively expensive (More so than the claims database) again see 1 for reasons why.

3) If your points / motoring convictions are over five years old when you took the Insurance out you do not need to declare them.

4) If you don't disclose a speeding conviction, an Insurer might void the policy if after investigation they discover you deliberately failed to disclose it. If it was inadvertent and they would have covered you had you declared it then they will cover you subject to you paying an extra premium etc. Insurance is based on the principle of Utmost good faith, if you intentionally lie to the Insurer to gain an advantage they can not pay your claim. If the non disclosure was not deliberate then see earlier in this paragraph

5) An Insurer adjusting the market value of a car automatically could potentially cause all sorts of problems. In addition it often makes little or no difference to the premium hence why Insurers leave it to the customer to monitor the declared value of their car.

An Insurer takes the risk for your claims but in return they need to rely on their customers declaring the correct information to them and being truthful.

It sounds like you've not declared a speeding conviction, I'm guess which was four years old and / or your with an Admiral Group Insurer.

What are the circumstances of your non disclosure

rs65

I would just add to dacouch's post, that not all insurers subscribe to the claims database so they rely on the policyholder providing accurate info.

forgotmyname

1, As well as the costs. The database may not be upto date either. You may make a claim on your previous insurance seconds before getting a new policy.

2, Same answer. It may not be upto date. You may have got a speeding notice through the post the morning of the quote.

3, Do you know any companies ask for this info after 5 years? Ive never done a quote where they have asked for over 5 years.

4, Because you failed to declare how much of a risk you really are. 2mph shunt or a major accident. No difference.

In fact a majopr shunt maybe cheaper to payout. If no major injuries. Write the car off and payout quickly saves on car hire charges.

5, In 2009 I paid £2300 for my car. But similar cars were being advertised for £4000.

In fact there is an identical car in the autotrader now advertised at £4000.

So the value of my car is?

Sounds like you failed to declare all facts and they refused to payout.

As dacouch said what are the facts. Maybe you have a case?

If it applies....Have you declared you have had a policy cancelled to the new company your going to use?

If not they could cancel your new policy for non disclosure also.

InsideInsurance

1) Not all insurers subscribe and so (a) the insurer you are getting a quote from may not subscribe or (b) your past insurer may not have loaded details as they dont subscribe. In addition getting a match can be difficult, insurers dont ask a list of every address and vehicle you've owned in the last years and if you've moved home and changed cars finding other matches purely on name and DOB is going to be difficult as many people share these

Finally the question is also about "incidents" and even if you report these to a subscribing insurer these wont always make it to the databases as they arent claims.

2) The last time I checked there wasnt a feed on offer from the DVLA to insurers to get this sort of information electronically. I know someone has previously mentioned that a fairly small insurer has been running this but that doesnt necessarily mean the DVLA has upscaled the service to deal with millions of daily requests.

3) As you say, insurers use the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act for when they need to be told about road traffic offences. If the offense is considered spent then it doesnt have to be declared. The points however come off our license sooner than the RoOA dictate and so it can cause some confusion to individuals but to be honest that is more an issue of a disconnect between two pieces of government legislation rather than insurers behaviour.

4) Insurance is based on the principle of "utmost good faith". If you deliberately defraud the insurer by not declaring information then you have broken the most basic tenement of insurance. Of cause if you genuinely accidentally dont disclose something then the insurer needs to adjust the premiums but will cover the incident. The most common time this happens is when someone buys a secondhand car, says its unmodified but only because they didn't realise leather seats were an optional extra 5 years ago when the car was made.

5) This is arguably the only valid point you've made and in fact some insurers have dropped the question as it is fairly pointless.

The problem with auto valuation is (a) no single data source exists for all vehicles (b) vehicle mileage makes a big difference in valuation and no insurer will want to be the first to ask a new question that a customer may not know instantly (c) the database from the likes of Glass is very expensive to buy

A few insurers at least that still ask the question only actually use the answer for some very basic functions - eg a former client only used it to decide if you could buy TPFT or if you had to have Comprehensive cover - anything over £5k couldnt buy TPFT

SailorSam

Gossy68 wrote: »

5- oh yes, why do I have to keep them informed about the value of my unmodified vehicle. I get my brand new vehicle insured then find out 5 years later the value is still the price I paid for it at the time and NOT the current market value – with policy adjusted accordingly every year. It beggars belief that in 2012 with computers, trade databases etc they ask ME what the value of my car is?

I renewed my insurance last week. I paid £5.5k for my car 5yrs ago and haven't a clue what it's worth. When i saw that question i picked a number out of thin air and thought they must know better than me.

rudekid48

At present their is no automatic access to driving licence details from the DVLA. It is something that people want but as with everything these days there are data protection issues to overcome and of course the DVLA will not do it for free.

The technology exists but cannot be implemented.

A small number of Insurers / Brokers do a check but this involves setting up a 3-way phone call with DVLA and the policyholder to give authority.

Buzby

When asked for a value on a form, if I can, I state 'market value' as my estimation would be guesswork. It is profoundly nonsensical to as the owner, unless he's in the business of selling. Some will accept this, other will not.

I think this is the onlly time I've been encouraged to guess an answer!

Since try only ever pay out the MV, what I think the value is, is immaterial.

rudekid48

Buzby wrote: »

When asked for a value on a form, if I can, I state 'market value' as my estimation would be guesswork. It is profoundly nonsensical to as the owner, unless he's in the business of selling. Some will accept this, other will not.

I think this is the onlly time I've been encouraged to guess an answer!

Since try only ever pay out the MV, what I think the value is, is immaterial.

No it isn't.

You are right that any claim payout would be based on MV but at the point that you are asked you are not claiming - you are asking for a quote. Value is taken into account in a number of ways, for example, most insurers would not offer TPF&T cover on an £80K vehicle. You are being asked for your best guess, not an exact market value as this will fluctuate.

Gossy68

dacouch wrote: »

1) Accessing the database for each customer could add extra work and therefore costs to the Insurer which would affect premiums.

2) Accessing the DVLA database is relatively expensive (More so than the claims database) again see 1 for reasons why.

What I'm saying is they add the admin costs to your policy so you'll pay for the charges. Big deal. Then there is no confusion, less questions and 0% chance of us breaking the "bond of trust". The oneous will be on the insurers to keep their house in order with regard to claim databases, populating them with information and subscribing to them. Or perhaps they prefer it this way, so they can trip us up when we make a claim. I'm just suggesting a way to eliminate non-disclosure agruments with insurers.

rudekid48

Gossy68 wrote: »

What I'm saying is they add the admin costs to your policy so you'll pay for the charges. Big deal. Then there is no confusion, less questions and 0% chance of us breaking the "bond of trust". The oneous will be on the insurers to keep their house in order with regard to claim databases, populating them with information and subscribing to them. Or perhaps they prefer it this way, so they can trip us up when we make a claim. I'm just suggesting a way to eliminate non-disclosure agruments with insurers.

Or you could just be honest and tell them what your history is. Unless you've had a !!!! load of claims it can't be that difficult to keep track and any convictions are on your licence - so what's the big deal?