Claiming land attached to my property

tiamaria

Hi, I'm hoping someone can help me with this, I'll try to make it as short as possible.

I bought my house in 1983, within a few months of buying it I was offered the chance of buying some land at the back of the property. I regret it now but at the time I had just taken on the mortgage and couldn't afford it, I don't remember who actually sent the letter. My neighbours each side both bought some of this land and subsequently they had longer gardens than me.

The rough land was never used and when i met my partner 13 years ago we cleared this land (as it was overgrown and there was even a rat living there), I have used this land as my own since then, it is fenced off. My neighbour on one side has a right of way through this land but I paid for her to have a gate at the bottom of her garden and she is happy to forfeit this right of way, I would like to sort this out now while I have amicable neighbours.

ABout 8 or 9 years ago i phoned the council to find out who this land belonged to so I could offer to buy it but they said they did not know. They must have found out though because they bought a huge amount of land behind it (which must have included my claimed bit), they fenced off this land for a recreational area and built a wall behind the land i was using and made no attempt to claim it back from me, leaving me with a garden the same length as my neighbours.

I would like to legally claim this land now, can anyone offer any advice please? I apologise for the length of the post.

roswell

I beleive but dont hold me to it that if it is kept (eg tidy / lawn mowed etc) for 12 yeras you can claim it as yours but firstly you need to contatc the land registery and find out who ownes the land.

paddy's_mum

You may like to try this one on the gardenlaw site for more definite answers. What you are seeking to do is claim 'adverse possession' and different rules apply depending if the land in question is registered or unregistered.

Don't speak to the Land Registry yet - you may be tipping them off!

Debt_Free_Chick

The process for obtaining title (ownership) to land under adverse possession is now much more difficult. Firstly, is the land registered at all? You'll need to search the Land Registry to find out. If it is registered, then if you claim ownership under adverse possession, a notice will be sent to the registered owner who can refute your claim, as the land is registered to them.

If it's not registered, then you need to follow the process set out in this guide from the Land Registry. Even then, you'll see that it's not guaranteed that you get ownership of the land. In particular, the Land Registry are likely to contact people that they think might have an interest (ownership) in the land.

John_Pierpoint

Step one.

Pretending to be someone else, if you must, call in at your "local" friendly land registry and ask for the public desk.
They have a computer with access to the "index map". Chat up the employee nicely (in my case i needed to prove that a flytipping site IS owned by my local council, when the council denied any responsibility) and poke about until they have found the plot of land in question. If you are in an ordinary street this should not be too difficult for the two of you, but if you are out in the countryside it can be difficult.

This, so far free, process will tell you if the land is registered.

If it is not registered and, if you can get a genuinely independent person to make a sworn declaration that you have occupied and used the land as your own for 12 years excluding any others, then you are home and dry. You can probably do it yourself by filling in the appropriate forms. A solicitor would charge you a few hundred for filling in the same forms, but pick one who knows what he is doing. You will get a possessory title. When you sell you house or after a few more years (10 comes to mind), you should be able to upgrade you possessory title to a "freehold". A bit more expenditure but probably a lot less than the extra value of you home.

If the land is registered you will have to fork out a modest sum (about 10 GBP
I would guess) and you will be printed a written description of the title and a
plan of the land owned by that registered title. (You can access the Registry a bit cheaper over the internet BUT I don't think you can seach the index map).

Beware of the land belonging to "The Queen" as surprise, surprise, it it more difficult to pinch government property.

The new law says that for registered property you have to serve notice, via the registry, that you are in occupation and then wait two years before you can have your 12 year squatters title (ie 10 + 2 minimum). This means the real owner has 2 years to legally eject you.

Beware of finding yourself in court, it could bankrupt you; but on the other hand the registered owner won't want to spend more on legal fees, than the difficult to get at land is worth; so might well agree to do a deal with you. The land registry now has a dispute process but I doubt it can be used by someone like you.

One final word of warning, passions get very high over land, as I expect you have realised reading "gardenlaw"; where I live there was a notorious local gangster who would find people like you and then, using fake documentation, register the land before you did. He would then extract a large payment from you for selling you a title, because you would not want to share your garden with someone like him ! Someone in your position shot him; and in a triumph for the jury system, was let off !!

John.

(PS All I got was 50 GBP, awarded against the local council, for mal-administration - probably worked out at less than 1 GBP per hour).

Debt_Free_Chick

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

Step one.

Pretending to be someone else, if you must, call in at your "local" friendly land registry and ask for the public desk.
They have a computer with access to the "index map". Chat up the employee nicely (in my case i needed to prove that a flytipping site IS owned by my local council, when the council denied any responsibility) and poke about until they have found the plot of land in question. If you are in an ordinary street this should not be too difficult for the two of you, but if you are out in the countryside it can be difficult.

This, so far free, process will tell you if the land is registered.

Or simply make the enquiry yourself online - instant & free unless it's registered, then you have to pay to see the title.

Link to Land Registry online title search

John_Pierpoint

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

Or simply make the enquiry yourself online - instant & free unless it's registered, then you have to pay to see the title.

Link to Land Registry online title search

I think "ordinary" people need an address, a patch of "unused" land will not have an address, as in my example of a patch of land used for fly-tipping.

The clerk could not find it but I've got a good visual memory and spotted it from its shape on the map. The description was something like "land adjacent to Chelmsford Road".

John_Pierpoint

The old English concept of squatters rights brands you in the eyes of some people as a thief and a liar BUT I think it is quite sensible. I well remember staying with the french exchange family of my son, then a 15 year old schoolboy. The French family had a lovely old thatched holiday home in the form of an old farmhouse, but with little land. Within a stone's throw there was an overgrown strip of pine plantation, full of dead brushwood etc. It was a major fire hazard.

Monsieur explained to me the failed struggle he had trying to find out who owned the strip. He was amazed when I explained the direct action I would take in England, with the added bonus of being able to claim legal ownership, if the legal owner did not turn up within 12 years. (The English tradition is that everything is permitted unless specifically outlawed. The Continental tradition is that everything is forbidden unless specifically permitted by some sort of "rights" act).

Most people finding a squatter, go right off the deep end and storm off to see their (expensive) lawyer. Very foolish as possession is 9/10ths of the law.
Much better to find out how long the squatter has been there and then turn up saying "Hi it is so good of you to look after the land I don't need just at the moment, you have my permission to carry on using my land until I need it back". Then take lots of photos. Include a newspaper to help date them.
and confirm in a recorded delivery letter that you have given the squatter a temporary licence to be there. That will stop the clock.

If you find the land is tenanted (legally) you might find a problem. A tenant squats on behalf of his landlord and a squatter only (legally) squats when the tenants lease comes to an end.

Beware of that right of way, if it is a legal right of way (ie you neighbours can prove they have used it for 20 years on a defined line and the land you occupy does not belong to the crown), then they must legally agree to extinguish it. Killing a right of way through disuse is difficult and takes a "lifetime".

(I would add that I am in no way legally qualified and it is difficult to keep up with court cases and changes in the law).

Reg'ds John

John_Pierpoint

The old English concept of squatters rights brands you in the eyes of some people as a thief and a liar BUT I think it is quite sensible. I well remember staying with the french exchange family of my son, then a 15 year old schoolboy. The French family had a lovely old holiday home in the form of an old farmhouse, but with little land. Within a stone's throw there was an overgrown strip of pine plantation, full of dead brushwood etc. It was a major fire hazard.

Monsieur explained to me the failed struggle he had trying to find out who owned it. He was amazed when I explained the direct action I would take in England, with the added bonus of being able to claim legal ownership, if the legal owner did not turn up within 12 years. (The English tradition is that everything is permitted unless specifically outlawed. The Continental tradition is that everything is forbidden unless specifically permitted by some sort of "rights" act).

Most people finding a squatter, go right off the deep end and storm off to see their (expensive) lawyer. Very foolish as possession is 9/10ths of the law.
Much better to find out how long the squatter has been there and then turn up saying "Hi it is so good of you to look after the land I don't need just at the moment, you have my permission to carry on using my land until I need it back". Then take lots of photos. Include a newspaper to help date them.
and confirm in a recorded delivery letter that you have given the squatter a temporary licence to be there. That will stop the clock.

If you find the land is tenanted (legally) you might find a problem. A tenant squats on behalf of his landlord and a squatter only (legally) squats when the tenants lease comes to an end.

Beware of that right of way, if it is a legal right of way (ie you neighbours can prove they have used it for 20 years on a defined line and the land you occupy does not belong to the crown), then they must legally agree to extinguish it. Killing a right of way through disuse is difficult and takes a "lifetime".

(I would add that I am in no way legally qualified and it is difficult to keep up with court cases and changes in the law).

Reg'ds John

Debt_Free_Chick

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

I think "ordinary" people need an address, a patch of "unused" land will not have an address, as in my example of a patch of land used for fly-tipping.

There's a clickable map - or you can use a clickable aerial photo. But the easiest way is to use the postcode - which for the OP shouldn't be a problem, as the land is adjacent to their property.

For others, click on the map then on "properties nearby" and that will reveal the postcode

manhattan

We have lived in a house rented from a social landlord for 9 years now, and have been offered the chance to purchase the house with discount to which we are considering in the not too distant future.


Now next to our end of terraced house near to our garden is a large piece of land that has been neglected and disowned ever since the houses were built. No one has ever cut the grass on this land except us and we have done this since we moved in 9 years ago.

The land has not been fenced off by ourselves just been kept nice and tidy by me and the wife.



A few years ago i applied for the title deeds and i have a title number but on entering the number on the above website does not show up as it is not an address only the title deeds are available which i have. There are no map plans for this land though, but i do have the map plans of our house which shows that the land we have been looking after states "easement for gas main" and i think it is possibly owned by the developers that built these houses in 1992.

Does anyone have any advice on what to do next to claim this unused land?

Thanks