Scrap or save boiler?

cgray25

At a cross roads with my boiler, it's about 7 years old but the heat exchanger and diverter valve are needing replaced which is going to be around £300. Engineer today said it might be worth getting a new boiler installed, he said £800 (after £400 scrappage) and that we'd probably save £300 a year on gas.

I think the boiler has been running inefficiently, gas bill has shot up to £90 a month but I'm not sure about £300 saving a year (current boiler is rated 78% efficient...suppose that's when running efficiently though!). Will also be due to the fact that it's been a bloody cold year and the Mrs seems to be constantly submerged in the bath now :silenced: ).

Suppose it depends on the reality of whether a replacement would really be £800. The other consideration is that we might move within the next couple of years but the engineer was saying something about the new home report and how I'd be seeing the money back in terms of a favourable efficiency report.

Stick or twist?

macman

Would this be a BG RGI by any chance?
If so get a independent local RGI to give a second opinion,
You are aware that BG typically quote 40% more for an install than an independent, and that any 'scrappage allowance' is purely a reduction on the initial inflated price?
And that your engineer gets a referral fee should you order a new boiler from BG?
It's not feasible that you will save 33% on your gas bills, to do that a new boiler would have to be near 100% efficient, even assuming that your existing one is still 78%. A modern condensing boiler will certainly be more efficient, but you are unlikely to get the install cost back in less than about 10 years.
What is the make and model of the boiler?
7 years is not old for a boiler, and the diverter valve is a cheaper part that is relatively easily changed ( I had mine done recently for about £65). What is wrong with the heat exchanger?

cgray25

Hi Macman,

No, was an indy. I was aware of inflated prices, but though £1200 sounded about right for a new install.

On the gas front, I know a modern condensing will run about 90% so would only gain 12% saving over current boiler (Baxi 80e) but in it's current state, god knows what the efficiency is!

The diverter on this costs minimum £100 for the part and is apparently a bit of a pig to change (1hr+ which I'd verified elsewhere). He reckoned the H/E was burst because there was blue deposits that had dropped onto the burner (oxidised copper).

macman

£1200 is suspiciously cheap-what new boiler is he offering? Is that price exclusive of a powerflush and VAT? Without a proper flush, your warranty will be invalid.
Since it's a Baxi, I'd get shot of it, but make sure you get a decent brand this time. WB or Vaillant possibly.

cgray25

Tbh we didn't really get into it because I more or less dismissed it at the time, but I did have my doubts. It was only afterwards I was thinking I'd be spending £300+ on the old one (plus higher gas spendage through the year, maybe another £150 a year over a new condensing) compared to £800 for a new install. At that rate it's pretty much paid for in 3 years.

Indy did actually say the Baxi was an ok little boiler though (think they got a bad name from their initial crappy PCB's they shipped with).

macman

Baxi and Ideal came out bottom of the list for reliability in the recent Which survey. Baxi 71%, Ideal 70%.
WB and Vaillant both top with 77%.
The extra for a decent brand will not be that much.
I can't recall many RGI's on here recommending Baxi.

cgray25

Heh, maybe he meant they're great for RGI's, all these call outs!

gas4you

It is common to get blue/green deposits on the heat exchanger and some may fall onto the burner.

That is part reason why one has an annual service to clean it.

Unless the burner or casing was corroded, or there was actual dripping water from it, I doubt very much it needs a new heat exchanger.

cgray25

Hmm, I did wonder about the h/e - he said it looked like drips had come off it onto the white burner lining, but didn't look like water marks to me, just dust. Must admit, it's not been serviced in 3 years as when we moved in we thought it was already on the way out.

I'd also initially asked about getting a refurb kit done on the diverter but he said it was "totally clogged up" (pipe below was getting very hot) and it wouldn't be worth cleaning/refurbing.

I don't have any problems with the boiler apart from a little heat into the rads when running hot water and the fact the gas bill's shot up. I was only looking at the h/e as it was suggested that could be clogged up (internally) and contributing. But then, maybe the diverter problem alone is causing the high bill?

unclebulgaria

I smell a big fat liar!
I'm guessing he did the sharp intake of breath and the grimace when he heard you mention a service kit for the divertor?
I'd seriously get another RGI in and say nothing to him and ask his opinion. That boiler scrappage thing is a BG trick to give you the impression he's doing you a favour.
G4Y is right about the blue green deposits, if I recall its condensing POC's on the heat exchanger before it gets properly warm. Nothing to worry about.
Sounds, and I'm only guessing, he's trying to worry you into giving him more work! IMO

gas4you

Assuming that the DV is the problem, then a replacement DV would cost around £170-£190 + VAT fitted, at my prices.

They are a relatively straightforward job on these.