15 year old got a penalty fare from Metro / IRCAS

Quentin

Livingthedream wrote: »

Not wanting to come across as arrogant or pompous, sic, but where are those rules written down, because the rules I quoted in post #10 state 5 - 15 years travel at child rates.

Thing is, your quote is only part of it.

(You have extracted part of the rules for child tickets for residents of Tyne and Wear).

The OP's daughter isn't from Tyne and Wear, and should have bought an adult ticket. (Out of area visitors have to buy them from age 14!)

Stigy

Quentin wrote: »

Thing is, your quote is only part of it.

(You have extracted part of the rules for child tickets for residents of Tyne and Wear).

The OP's daughter isn't from Tyne and Wear, and should have bought an adult ticket. (Out of area visitors have to buy them from age 14!)

From what I've read, the rules are ambiguous in that in some ways it reads that you need a pop card to get a child ticket, or be able to prove you are under 16. That's how I read the rules at least. In other words, much like the "think 25" system shops have in place for serving alcohol (ID need if you look under 25, unless you can prove you are over 18). Therefore one would assume that the actual age is under 16-years of age, but the onus is on them to be able to prove so unless they clearly look it. Again, that's how I saw it.

If the RPI was correct in the PF issue, he still should have trodden carefully due to the age of the minor. Also, enforcing non-payment will be nye on impossible.

elektra-2007

I know this is prob not what you want to hear, But here in Manchester we have child tickets for under 16 provided they have an IGo card, you can only have an IGo card if you live or attend school in Manchester. All other youngsters from out of the area have to pay full fare. this is because the local authorities subsidise the children's fares. So for example in London under 16 with their correct pass can travel for free, as we live in Manchester my son isn't entitled to a pass, so when we visit London I have to pay full fare for him.
If this is the case in your circumstances, perhaps you can argue it isn't very well advertised.
I have to say as a bus driver we were never allows to throw a child off a bus especially at night. I would argue that they put your daughter at risk, they have a duty of care for their passengers even if she was in the wrong un knowingly.

Livingthedream

Quentin wrote: »

Thing is, your quote is only part of it.

(You have extracted part of the rules for child tickets for residents of Tyne and Wear).

Looking back, perhaps I was too general with the rules and that the Tyne and Wear Metro does have it's own local rules. It seems that the NR conditions of carriage, Nexus's Conditions of Carriage and Nexus's fares guide are, as Stigy puts it, ambiguous.

Mind you I still think the Penalty fare appeal should have been upheld, due to the proven age of the OP's daughter.

Stigy

Livingthedream wrote: »

Looking back, perhaps I was too general with the rules and that the Tyne and Wear Metro does have it's own local rules. It seems that the NR conditions of carriage, Nexus's Conditions of Carriage and Nexus's fares guide are, as Stigy puts it, ambiguous.

Mind you I still think the Penalty fare appeal should have been upheld, due to the proven age of the OP's daughter.

I agree. It won't be entertained at court, not at that age (I know I said that youth court is possible, but at 15-years old, for a first offence byelaw that began life as a PF? Not a chance), so how would a nil-payment be enforced? It's better and far more reasonable, if the rules were breached, for Nexus to ask for the difference in the fares between child and standard. Just a gesture of goodwill if nothing else, given the hot water they could have been in if something had happened to this minor as far as Nexus' duty of care went! (or lack of?).

Doofbox

To clear up some confusion.
There are concessionary fares for children from Tyne and Wear with a POP card.
My daughter purchased a standard child ticket which is not the same thing. The Nexus rules state that she may have been asked to prove her age at purchase, which she wasn't.

We are awaiting the outcome of the second appeal.

Livingthedream

Doofbox wrote: »

We are awaiting the outcome of the second appeal.

Thank you for getting back to us, please post the outcome of your second appeal once known, even if unsuccessful, as I'm sure there will be posters on here who will aid you on what to do next.

Rail2012

Good Morning,

I have been copied into this link and work for Metro, I am disappointed that the independant appeals process did not withdraw the penalty notice after proof of age was provided!!

The customer relation team at metro would be happy to help look into this for you, details are below:-

Customer Relations
Tyne and Wear Metro
Metro Control Centre
South Gosforth
Newcastle upon Tyne
NE3 1YT
[EMAIL="contactus@twmetro.co.uk"]contactus@twmetro.co.uk[/EMAIL]

Call: Tel 0191 203 3199 - 9am - 5pm, Monday to Friday

sharnad

Doofbox wrote: »

To clear up some confusion.
There are concessionary fares for children from Tyne and Wear with a POP card.
My daughter purchased a standard child ticket which is not the same thing. The Nexus rules state that she may have been asked to prove her age at purchase, which she wasn't.

We are awaiting the outcome of the second appeal.

Can't really ask you to prove your age at purchase when you. It from a machine

sharnad

Livingthedream wrote: »

Not wanting to come across as arrogant or pompous, sic, but where are those rules written down, because the rules I quoted in post #10 state 5 - 15 years travel at child rates.

You don't appear pompous at all. The link you provided doesn't apply as its a national railway link and this is a nexus metro which has a different set of rules. The rules are on the nexus page.