Filling in the ESA50 form *update and question*

looby75

I'm currently filling in the form and I seem to be repeating myself over and over for all the relevant questions (mental health) I am suffering with anxiety, depression and panic attacks so I find social situation and meeting people I don't know very stressful to the point where I avoid them at all costs at the moment. If I'm with my children it's not too bad, they are a distraction and I can usually manage, and I have explained this on the form but as I said I seem to be giving the same answer to each section when it asks how I feel etc.

I'm being totally honest so can't think of any other way to answer, will it go against me that I'm not giving different examples in each section. There are only so many ways you can describe feeling like you are about to die when having a panic attack or that you have a constant feeling of impending doom and general worthlessness.

Muttleythefrog

Firstly... this document may be helpful when filling the form in for MH reasons (pages 3-9) as well as giving other general information on the WCA. http://www.rethink.org/document.rm?id=10911

But what you report is actually what a lot of people say about the DLA application form... constantly repeating yourself. I did find I was repeating myself a fair bit on the ESA50 too. But sometimes having the descriptors at hand can help give indication as to information needed where the questions actually aren't that clever. Could repeating yourself go against you.. doubt it... as long as relevant information is given that's what's important.

If you've access to a printer then you might be well advised to use the pdf version for filling in. It'll help with repeating yourself issues and of course may save you serious efforts come next assessment.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@money/documents/digitalasset/dg_195544.pdf

looby75

Thanks Muttley, after reading that it would seem I am answering the questions correctly, I'm giving examples of how I feel and how it varies so it doesn't really matter that I am writing the same as the end result 9 times out of 10 is a panic attack or me avoiding the situation all together

Oh God I hate feeling like this, writing it all down is making me feel even worse, I sound pathetic on paper, I could kick myself for letting it get this bad before asking for help. I've suffered with depression for most of my life, I've been here before I should have known I couldn't fight it off on my own

HB58

As Muttley says, the questions are repetitive so it is no wonder that the answers are!

Muttleythefrog

looby75 wrote: »

Thanks Muttley, after reading that it would seem I am answering the questions correctly, I'm giving examples of how I feel and how it varies so it doesn't really matter that I am writing the same as the end result 9 times out of 10 is a panic attack or me avoiding the situation all together

Oh God I hate feeling like this, writing it all down is making me feel even worse, I sound pathetic on paper, I could kick myself for letting it get this bad before asking for help. I've suffered with depression for most of my life, I've been here before I should have known I couldn't fight it off on my own

Your second paragraph sound horribly familiar! Did the same myself.. and feel the same myself when writing down my problems. I think sometimes you (or rather me.. perhaps you) live day to day in a sort of pseudo reality where you don't realise just how screwed up you are because you're trying to avoid thinking about it. I come here to feel more normalised.. to feel like I might be human because I can imitate how others act here. But when you fill in the forms you start thinking.. 'damn.. am I really this bad.. am I really sitting in clothes unchanged for weeks or am I exaggerating'.. and then you realise actually you're not being entirely honest... you correct it to a month and wonder how it could have come to this.

Because, as you put it, I sound so pathetic on paper what I find is that MH professionals have extremely poor ability to absolve themselves of preconceptions and that badly affects their fact recording and judgements. For example.. my work history includes part owning and running a bar abroad.. I also ran a pub for 2 years... but I mysteriously become an employee when MH professionals record this... in a couple of cases apparently I left the bar in SPain after falling out with my boss... I was the boss... I was always falling out with him..lol

So I'm hoping the ESA50 form filling come early next year at my reassessment is a short affair about a monster.

looby75

Well I've just had the phone call to tell me that I am fit for work (pity my mental health doesn't agree with that right now ) They agree that my anxiety and depression is severe but I am still capable of some kind of work.

The woman on the phone told me I'll get a letter in the next couple of days with details of how to go and sign on. I had just sliced my fingers open on a box and was trying to avoid bleeding all over the place so pretty much just said OK to her.

Should I have mentioned that I might want to consider appealing. I asked for a copy of the medical report last week but I've not received it yet, have I lost my chance to appeal by just accepting what I was told on the phone.

I don't want to be on the sick forever, I've just started CBT and the docs are still trying to sort out my medication. I'm trying to get better but I know the stress of continual job rejections and pressure from the work programme and job centre is going to push me back to square one.

Muttleythefrog

looby75 wrote: »

Well I've just had the phone call to tell me that I am fit for work (pity my mental health doesn't agree with that right now ) They agree that my anxiety and depression is severe but I am still capable of some kind of work.

The woman on the phone told me I'll get a letter in the next couple of days with details of how to go and sign on. I had just sliced my fingers open on a box and was trying to avoid bleeding all over the place so pretty much just said OK to her.

Should I have mentioned that I might want to consider appealing. I asked for a copy of the medical report last week but I've not received it yet, have I lost my chance to appeal by just accepting what I was told on the phone.

I don't want to be on the sick forever, I've just started CBT and the docs are still trying to sort out my medication. I'm trying to get better but I know the stress of continual job rejections and pressure from the work programme and job centre is going to push me back to square one.

As long as you can get a sicknote you can stay on ESA while appealing. My advice is appeal.. this can be done on GL24 form or in writing a letter. You get 4 weeks from notification of decision to appeal.. after that you'd require good cause for late appeal. Identify the descriptors you feel apply to you... argue they apply in your appeal (GL24 or letter) and try to get corroborative evidence.. ideally medical opinion that they apply to you. When you appeal send a sicknote and ask to remain on ESA to get the assessment rate.

As it happens you did the right thing on the phone.. some people end up confused and ask the DWP to look at their decision again... something they'd do anyway if you appealled. Hopefully the ESA85 medical report will arrive soon... as you probably will want to fundamentally undermine its accuracy... the DWP will almost certainly have used this to effectively be their decision. You've probably got a very significant chance of overturning the decision... but this may take many many months. You're a long way off needing to claim JSA.. and even if your appeal fails... you'll probably be able to reapply (for ESA) due to the greater than 6 months it takes.

looby75

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

As long as you can get a sicknote you can stay on ESA while appealing. My advice is appeal.. this can be done on GL24 form or in writing a letter. You get 4 weeks from notification of decision to appeal.. after that you'd require good cause for late appeal. Identify the descriptors you feel apply to you... argue they apply in your appeal (GL24 or letter) and try to get corroborative evidence.. ideally medical opinion that they apply to you. When you appeal send a sicknote and ask to remain on ESA to get the assessment rate.

As it happens you did the right thing on the phone.. some people end up confused and ask the DWP to look at their decision again... something they'd do anyway if you appealled. Hopefully the ESA85 medical report will arrive soon... as you probably will want to fundamentally undermine its accuracy... the DWP will almost certainly have used this to effectively be their decision. You've probably got a very significant chance of overturning the decision... but this may take many many months. You're a long way off needing to claim JSA.. and even if your appeal fails... you'll probably be able to reapply (for ESA) due to the greater than 6 months it takes.

Thanks Muttley, my GP is happy to keep giving me sick notes for the time being as she can see that I'm still not functioning anywhere near normally.

As I say all I want is some breathing space in order to get better. I just thought I may have blown my chance of appeal by not asking for one there and then. The woman was so matter of fact and at no point did she mention the possibility of appeal it was just, right that's it you now have to claim JSA.

Muttleythefrog

looby75 wrote: »

Thanks Muttley, my GP is happy to keep giving me sick notes for the time being as she can see that I'm still not functioning anywhere near normally.

As I say all I want is some breathing space in order to get better. I just thought I may have blown my chance of appeal by not asking for one there and then. The woman was so matter of fact and at no point did she mention the possibility of appeal it was just, right that's it you now have to claim JSA.

Unfortunately the DWP staff in relation to ESA are scandalously ill informed. Either that or they set out to deliberately misinform claimants. The letter they send (if you ever get one.. don't hold your breath) if you're lucky enough to receive a relevant one.. then it should declare your right of appeal.

But make sure if you do appeal that you focus on those descriptors.

looby75

Well my letter came saying why I don't qualify for ESA and tbh the explanation was so far from what actually happened I almost wondered if they had sent the wrong report.

They focused on the fact I returned from the medical by bus and completely ignored the fact that I had to get my father in law to take me because I was being physically sick and shaking from head to toe at the prospect of going to the medical. She also totally ignored the fact that I had needed to take a double dose of diazepam just to get through the medical.

She said I was slightly tearful but I coped well. I was on the edge of a panic attack right the way through and at one point totally broke down in tears and she asked if I wanted to stop the medical. In hindsight I probably should have said yes but the thought of having to go through it all again made me say that I would continue once I'd manage to calm down.

There were other things that she put that meant I was ok for work, the fact that I walk to the doctors, err yes I have to because thats where I am receiving treatment to try and get better, but even that is a huge ordeal for me. I put my headphones in and avoid contact with anyone on the way there.

Part of me wonders if it's worth appealing because everything I said about how I feel was completely ignored or twisted to make it sound I'm coping well and there is nothing wrong with me.

sja75

Hi Looby

I too have a similar condition. I have been in your situation regards appealing. I failed my medical, nil points awarded and inaccuracies within the report as you have unfortunately experienced.

As Muttley says focus on the ATOS medical descriptors in your appeal. Identify those that are relevant, give an example why they are relevant and get the professionals who has being to back you up in writing.

I don't have the links for the descriptors anymore, perhaps someone can help and post them up for you to look at.

I also quoted where the report had inaccurate comments to discredit it.

Also quoting lawcases if they apply in your circumstance will help your appeal submission. I will post some links up for you shortly.

From the advice that I got off this site I went from nil points to the Support Group via Tribunal only last week!

Good luck