Son`s account been fraudulently used

pmduk

dalesrider wrote: »

It is all well and good quoting one small section of PSD. Barclays staff will have refered this to ensure they ARE compliant with PSD in this case.
They will not simply have decided to redebit without good reason.
Banks employ staff who will be working with the FSA to ensure they are fully compliant with PSD and that their staff who have to deal with it on a daily basis fully understand it.

It's been shown on many occasions that bank staff are frequently not trained to the level you suggest.

opinions4u

dalesrider wrote: »

Banks employ staff who will be working with the FSA to ensure they are fully compliant with PSD and that their staff who have to deal with it on a daily basis fully understand it.

I spent far too many years working in banking. The single most difficult thing to achieve is to get all of the people to do everything right all of the time.

That's not something that's unique to the banking industry. Anybody who has ever managed another individual, raised kids or simply lived with other people will know this.

Just because the people at the top in Barclays know the rules doesn't mean the people at the bottom do. Even if they've been trained to any depth, I'd hazard a guess that they better understand where they are against their sales plan than they do any detailed knowledge of PSD or BCOBS.

magpiecottage

pmduk wrote: »

It's been shown on many occasions that bank staff are frequently not trained to the level you suggest.

opinions4u wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess that they better understand where they are against their sales plan than they do any detailed knowledge of PSD or BCOBS.

Absolutely. As some of you know, I have had a little spat with Santander recently (and guided many others about the same issue).

I had people at Santander who described themselves as complaints "Managers" who took the corporate line despite me giving them hard evidence to the contrary and refusing to accept that this ignoring that evidence was a breach of DISP.

I also used to find the same problem when I worked for an insurer so I agree that it is not unique.

So whilst I accept Dalesrider is right that we do not know, he does seem to be putting the onus on the customer to prove that it was fraudulent by suggesting that their mere belief, rather than proof, is sufficient to refuse a refund.

That is a breach of BCOBS 5.1.11R, which puts the onus on the bank to prove it was not. So I say if Barclays will not refund the debit and the OP insists it is fraudulent then FOS will be the best way forward for her.

dalesrider

opinions4u wrote: »

Just because the people at the top in Barclays know the rules doesn't mean the people at the bottom do. Even if they've been trained to any depth, I'd hazard a guess that they better understand where they are against their sales plan than they do any detailed knowledge of PSD or BCOBS.

Not in the department that deals with fraud. PSD is bread and butter and basic knowledge now.
Sure your average counter staff or call center staff only have enough to know that they have to log a unrecognised item.

Given the punishment for failure to adhere to PSD. Anyone that deals with fraud or disputes on a day to day basis. Will have a good working understanding and if they are unsure will refer to the customer relation department for high level guidance.
I would hazzard a guess that they also don't have sales targets.

opinions4u

I would hazzard a guess that they also don't have sales targets.

You won't find many staff wandering around a branch with no sales target.

meer53

opinions4u wrote: »

You won't find many staff wandering around a branch with no sales target.

The fraud teams with knowledge of PSD are very rarely in branch. As back office staff, sales targets do not apply. Certainly this is how it works for our fraud team. There are no sales targets.

Failure by bank staff to adhere to PSD regulations can result in a fine, so they are usually carried out correctly. This doesn't mean that all customers who experience fraud will be refunded. It depends on the circumstance.

dalesrider

antonic wrote: »

Like in this story here : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cardsloans/article-2192482/INVESTIGATION-Wonga-fraudsters-push-debt-unwitting-victims.html

Very diffrent.
In no case was any money paid into the accounts where the funds were debited from.

Debits to wonga seem to be becoming a large issue. Funny how they are the only one with this issue. Which does not tally to their explination of how its done.

I can hazzard a dammed good guess at how its done. loan taken out and paid into account. Which does not have enough cash to pay it back. They then contact wonga and say "sorry, but here is my friends card, who has offered to pay for me" Of course wonga will be more than happy to take payment from anyones card to get their "Wonga" back.....

I would expect to see the banks that have told customers to go to wonga for many back will be getting a nasty fine from the FSA on their failure on PSD.....

Given that the payday co's provide a finanical service. They should be regulated by the same body as the banks and face exactly the same penalities for failure to have secure procedures in place.

dalesrider

opinions4u wrote: »

You won't find many staff wandering around a branch with no sales target.

You don't get it do you..... I'm not talking branch or call center front line.

Fraud staff won't work in a branch. They will work out of a central office.
I would be very surprised if any banks fraud staff have sales targets. As there is enough to know without having to gen up on products and compliance scripts on such products.

opinions4u

meer53 wrote: »

The fraud teams with knowledge of PSD are very rarely in branch. As back office staff, sales targets do not apply. Certainly this is how it works for our fraud team. There are no sales targets.

I think my previous response misunderstood which staff were being referred to.

pmduk

dalesrider wrote: »

Not in the department that deals with fraud. PSD is bread and butter and basic knowledge now.
Sure your average counter staff or call center staff only have enough to know that they have to log a unrecognised item.

The problem is often getting the matter to the relevant department.

Surely it's not even the PSD is it? It's the PSR. The regulations state what banks are supposed to do. I'm prepared to be corrected, but are there any penalties for banks that fail to adhere to them? I've certainly never heard of any such sanctions being applied.