Feel terrible!

January20

LisaW123 wrote: »

A cat is unlikely to do much harm to other creatures,

You obviously know nothing about the strength that cats can have when they have to protect themselves, or the kind of injuries they can inflict with their teeth and their claws.

I can tell you from experience that they can harm other creatures, such as dogs and even humans if needs be, so it's not great surprise to me that the cat is ok but the dog and the OP are badly scratched.

OP, I'm a 100% cat lover but I don't think you should feel guilty. The cat was in your garden. It is not injured and hopefully it will have learned a valuable lesson.

In your position though, and in view of some of the posts on here reflecting what people in RL might think, I would look at cat proofing the fences - if just to show the neighbours that you don't want their cat to be hurt. At the same time, you will be protecting your dog too. Just in case.

Welshwoofs

scrabbles wrote: »

If a kid drank antifreeze I had in a non-childproofed bottle on the bottom shelf of my unsecured shed I wouldn't be thinking, "well the kid shouldn't have trespassed" or "the parents should have controlled their kids". I would be thinking, "why on earth didn't I lock that away. Why didn't I do something about that when I could."

I'd be thinking why didn't the parents stop their kids wandering? I certainly wouldn't be beating myself up about having anti-freeze unsecured in my garden shed. I have no children, I don't have children round my house and I have 6ft fences on all sides. I have no need to 'secure' dangerous substances or tools from myself. If a child broke into my garden and hurt themselves them I'm afraid it's the fault of themselves and their parents, I would feel very sorry for them of course, but I wouldn't have one iota of guilt about it.

NewKittenHelp

krlyr wrote: »

I know my dogs aren't good with cats and I know there are cats down my road. I've made my garden secure enough for my dogs, which I chose to own, but that's where my responsibility ends.
It's a bit like saying anyone who chooses to not have children should still child-proof their garden incase the local kids decide to climb in and play in the pond or garage. My house and garden are my property, I will cater to my pets. Sadly the law allows cats to roam but if we're talking about morals, I don't see how it is morally right to knowingly allow a pet to wander into other people's property and cause mess, damage and stress to their own pets - there are dogs who may not kill a cat but may find it stressful to chase one out of the garden, or pet rabbits who may be afraid or even injured by a cat when out in their run, plus there's potential for humans to get injured by a roaming cat or have allergies set off because a neighbourhood cat had been snoozing on their garden chairs. Would you even know if your cat had killed some child's pet rabbit? Would you say it's OK, because it's nature? Blame the owner of the rabbit for not cat-proofing their garden?
It's the whole burglars sueing house owners for injurying them during a breakin or whatever, the whole blame culture. Since when has someone's home stopped being their private property, I can understand noise pollution and a messy garden encouraging rats into the neighbour's houses etc. being something you have to consider but since when should dog owners have to cat-proof their fences, or keep their dogs on-lead in their own garden, or muzzle them at all times, or go and physically patrol their garden for cats every time they want to use their own garden? One feature that played a big part in getting this house was its 120' garden that is perfect for the dogs. I'm not going to not use my own garden because someone decides that their cat has the right to use every private property in the neighbourhood as its playground.


It is/was many animal's nature to roam. Hamsters would wander miles overnight yet we're happy to stick them in a plastic/metal tank less than a metre squared. How many dogs would stay put if you left the garden gate/front door open? Birds migrate miles, even halfway around the world, yet we keep pet birds in cages or aviaries. Why is it so appalling to put the same legal responsibilities onto cat owners? Latchkey dogs used to be a thing of the norm, but the world changes and it became inconvenient, dangerous to others and so on so the laws and attitudes changed, I would like to see the same thing happen with cats. If they're that unable to adapt to domesticated life, maybe they don't belong in our society any more?
Yes, it may be nature for dogs to attack cats. I also hear of many cat owners saying their cat is bullied by the local cats - most people want a solution to that, not just to be told "it's nature". It's also nature for dogs to wander around town if the door was left open but that isn't legal either - even a friendly dog that posed no harm of biting anyone or anything may still foul in public or other people's gardens, may cause an RTA and so on. I cannot let my dogs wander around as they please, I have to contain them to my garden or a lead, I don't get why cat owners are exempt from any kind of control. It's not a black and white "cats roam free or they're cooped up bored indoors" either - many housecats are well stimulated and very happy, but if not, the cat owner should be the one going to the expense of a safe cat run, cat-proofing their garden to keep the cat in, etc., not the local dog owners having to be the ones going to the trouble of keeping someone else's cat safe.



I don't forget. I quite like cats, would own one if it were practical. I know they're important to their owners, I don't wish that death upon them. What I don't like is that, somehow, in many cat owner's eyes I have to bear responsibility for their choice to get a pet. I am legally obliged to make sure my pet dogs do not impose on the neighbours by having suitable fencing, not allowing them to be a noise nuisance, not allowing them to be a health & safety problem (so control them if they are aggressive, clean up after them both on walks and in my garden so EH aren't around telling me off, keeping them out of roads, etc). I do not expect the locals to go and pick up my dogs' poo for me, I don't expect my neighbours to provide me with suitable fencing on the boundary solely for my benefit, I do not expect to be able to open my front door and pack the dogs out to the park across the road because it's more convenient than taking them for a walk. I chose to get pets, I am responsible for them 100%. Why do cat owners not think this applies to them, even morally if not legally? Why do dog owners have to consider cats, but cat owners don't have to consider the dogs?
As I said on another post, why all the venom towards the drivers who hit cats on the road, or to the dog owners with cat-unfriendly dogs? Unless these acts are commited intentionally, e.g. swerving to get a cat or setting a dog on a cat in public, as far as I see it, it is the cat owner who is responsible for the cat's health/life, many seem to like to shift the blame to others when they could have prevented injury or death by containing their cat to a safe environment, be it a house, a cat run or a cat-proofed garden. I would feel sad, but I will not have a cat's death on my conscience when it was not me who decided to let it fend for itself.

So you respect the law concerning your own property, but not when it concerns other living creatures?

Welshwoofs

NewKittenHelp wrote: »

So you respect the law concerning your own property, but not when it concerns other living creatures?

There is no law against a dog attacking a cat found in its own garden.

NewKittenHelp

Welshwoofs wrote: »

There is no law against a dog attacking a cat found in its own garden.

I'm aware of that, but that's not what I was referring to. Cats have a legally enshrined 'right to roam', which that person doesn't respect, but she (I assume) expects other creatures to respect her rights concerning her property. That seems a bit strange to me.

It has always been my opinion that one has responsibility to keep their property and land safe for anything that may enter, or to take precautions to ensure that anything unwanted doesn't enter.

krlyr

Could you link me to this law on a cat's right to roam? I was of the belief that they are simply not accounted for in the same laws as dogs. A lack of a control order, as such, rather than actual permission to go where they like. Cat owners can actually be held responsible for injury to humans or damage to property caused by their cats, too - but how many owners are aware of what their cat actually does when roaming to prevent this?

And again, why is it my responsibility to be the one who has to respect a cat's life? Why can its owner not respect it enough to protect it?

Welshwoofs

NewKittenHelp wrote: »

I'm aware of that, but that's not what I was referring to. Cats have a legally enshrined 'right to roam', which that person doesn't respect, but she (I assume) expects other creatures to respect her rights concerning her property. That seems a bit strange to me.

There is no law enshrining a cat's 'right to roam', it's simply the case that they are not mentioned in other laws that govern the control of other species such as dogs.

It has always been my opinion that one has responsibility to keep their property and land safe for anything that may enter, or to take precautions to ensure that anything unwanted doesn't enter.

If you have a cat that you allow outside, have you screened off your entire garden with netting to ensure that a bird never lands that your cat may attack? Have you made sure that no rodent could dig its way under your fences that your cat could attack? What about amphibious and insect life - have you proofed your garden against these in case your cat attacks them?

lisawood78

NewKittenHelp wrote: »

I'm aware of that, but that's not what I was referring to. Cats have a legally enshrined 'right to roam', which that person doesn't respect, but she (I assume) expects other creatures to respect her rights concerning her property. That seems a bit strange to me.

It has always been my opinion that one has responsibility to keep their property and land safe for anything that may enter, or to take precautions to ensure that anything unwanted doesn't enter.

I don't particularly want wood pigeons in my garden, or the multitude of magpies we get, or the odd sparrow hawk that touches down as the dogs bark at them, and chase them. They have never caught one of course but it riles them up and the noise when three danes get going is annoying to the neighbours. How do you suggest I go about stopping them? Or the hedgehog that shows up on the fully fenced side patio a few times a week that I have yet to discover how on earth it gets in or out (and now check the patio at night times before letting the hounds out there as I don't want it or my dogs hurt or covered in fleas)

My duty is to keep my dogs safe, enclosed, as quiet as is reasonable, happy and healthy. It is not my duty to stop external wildlife or anybody else getting in my garden and potentially coming to harm. I do have We Live Here signs on the side gate, the front door and the side fences with pictures of the dogs on (note I do not have signs warning about any danger from my dogs or warnings about them, merely an advisory of their presence)
As far as I am concerned no other creatures has 'rights' concerning my property. If I noted another animal in the garden (as with the hedgehog) then I would protect it/remove it/ensure they couldn't harm it but if a cat decides to venture in when i'm not watching then yes, not my problem.
As said before, I like cats but would never expect dog owners to protect my pet for me. Cats have a right to roam, yes, and at their own peril i'm afraid.
Expecting all dog owners to make their garden cat proof (or anything else proof) is bizarre to me.

~Chameleon~

This thread is getting silly now!

Ellie83

How terrible for you OP, and for your dog (he probably didn't understand), the cat (who probably didn't understand either) and the cat's owners

I hope everyone is doing OK. xxx