MSE News: Government considers tougher benefit sanctions

BigAunty

Morlock wrote: »

The government should concentrate on benefiting the population, not big businesses. For example, Tesco, where a lot of employees are earning around minimum wage and being subsidised by benefits, Tesco made £10 million per day in 2011, £3.8 billion pounds that year. Yet taxpayers subsidise their workers, and other working people cannot afford to shop there.

...

The benefit bill still needs to shrink - we are paying out more of our GDP on it as the years go past.

But yes to the proposal to increase taxes. It's true what you say - employers see the minimum wage as the maximum wage. A family with one full time NMW earner will invariably receive child tax credits, working tax credits, housing benefit and council tax benefit while paying virtually no tax into the system and for most of their working life, too.

However, note that a family with kids with only one parent in part time work can net almost the same sum of money as one parent working full time or two parents working full time - the way that benefits top up the low paid can mean that working extra hours simply doesn't make them any better off unless they are earning significantly more than average. That is a classic benefit trap and the correction is well overdue.

kingfisherblue

sniggings wrote: »

Is that £3 for the fruit AND veg or £3 for just one, sounds very good if for both and just OK if for one.

The eggs sound about the same as a shop, maybe not free range but when on a low income that's at the bottom of my must haves.

It's £3 per bag. I get fruit, veg and eggs each week, so it costs me £7. It's a heck of a lot cheaper than the supermarkets (except maybe when Aldi and Lidl have their offers on, but I often buy those as well ). Last week, a cauli in Tesco was £1.69 :eek:

There are no independent greengrocers and near me, and the market doesn't sell food. Even if the market did sell fruit and veg, parking costs would negate any savings.

For anyone who lives in St. Helens and is interested, there are several venues throughout the town. Helena Partnerships runs the scheme.

sniggings

challfour wrote: »

This idea about thinking that because you are in the work group you shouldn't be taking some sort of positive action to prepare yourself for work is in my opinion ridiculous.

They can't make me look for a job so I'm not is something that I regularly hear.

I don't believe that every ESA claimant beit in the support group or work group is unable to do any type of work. Yes they may have passed certain descriptors but that isn't the same as working.

In my opinion those in the work group (who are clearly the least ill) should be made to comply with any direction that will see them back at work or actively looking for work as are those who claim JSA.

If it means fining them 70% of their income well I agree with it.
Next time they will think twice about wanting a life on benefits.

About time they started to get tough

you need to understand what you are talking about.

First to be on ESA even the work group, does not mean you can work, it means you CAN'T work, you will not get on it if you can.

They are talking about stopping their money if they don't make an appointment or don't do voluntary work, which if crazy when they themselves have all ready said the person is unable to work.

Maybe read up on the descriptors to see how hard they are to meet.

banner188

BigAunty wrote: »

The benefit bill still needs to shrink - we are paying out more of our GDP on it as the years go past.

But yes to the proposal to increase taxes. It's true what you say - employers see the minimum wage as the maximum wage. A family with one full time NMW earner will invariably receive child tax credits, working tax credits, housing benefit and council tax benefit while paying virtually no tax into the system and for most of their working life, too.

However, note that a family with kids with only one parent in part time work can net almost the same sum of money as one parent working full time or two parents working full time - the way that benefits top up the low paid can mean that working extra hours simply doesn't make them any better off unless they are earning significantly more than average. That is a classic benefit trap and the correction is well overdue.

What is the correction though? Is it the 35 hour week minimum work to claim universal credits?
I forsee great problems arising from that proposal. For starters, no company will take on a part timer who claims uc for fear they will just be moved on when the job centre forces the issue. What about people who have been doing 30 hours for years in a stable job and the job centre finds some other job that is 35 hours? Are they going to force people to go for the other job?
It is just another way of penalising the low paid whilst big companies and other employers get away with paying the nmw and make big profits.

BurnleyBob

The major political parties are owned by the same interests - multinational businesses and bankers - and follow their agenda. Labour moaned and groaned about practically everything Thatcher and Major introduced during 18 years and then kept all their reforms when they got into office. When people vote at a General Election they are simply choosing which party robs them.

The same puppet masters also control the mainstream media. That's why the BBC et all somehow find it not newsworthy to report on the annual Bilderberg Group meeting. Dozens of UK politicians from the three major parties have attended those gatherings since the 1950s.

sniggings

BurnleyBob wrote: »

The major political parties are owned by the same interests - multinational businesses and bankers - and follow their agenda. Labour moaned and groaned about practically everything Thatcher and Major introduced during 18 years and then kept all their reforms when they got into office. When people vote at a General Election they are simply choosing which party robs them.

The same puppet masters also control the mainstream media. That's why the BBC et all somehow find it not newsworthy to report on the annual Bilderberg Group meeting. Dozens of UK politicians from the three major parties have attended those gatherings since the 1950s.

to say Labour is the same as the Tories is just wrong,

ffacoffipawb

sniggings wrote: »

to say Labour is the same as the Tories is just wrong,

True. If the former were in power, we would be in sh*t street.

BurnleyBob

sniggings wrote: »

to say Labour is the same as the Tories is just wrong,

It is? Care to expand upon why?

If you can tell me of one Thatcher/Major reform that Labour ditched then it will be news to me.

As I stated, they follow the same agenda. Whatever changes the coalition have and will make to the benefits system and anything else then Labour will keep. No exceptions.

Labour had the same plans with regards to sickness benefits and the JSA reign of terror. The idea is that vast numbers of claimants will be compelled to work for their benefits at no cost to Morrisons, etc, etc, or face destitution.

Butterfly_Brain

sniggings wrote: »

I totally agree, Morrisons too have over 40% of their staff on government funded apprenticeships , how crazy is that.

Government funded apprenticeships on £2.80 an hour , not forgetting the likes of Tesco, Sainsbury, , Boots, body shop, Maplins et al see the full list here
http://www.boycottworkfare.org/?page_id=16
They are using people on the paltry JSA and expecting them to work for 30 hrs a week that is below minimum wage which is illegal. So all these people are fed in week by week and the companies involved don't have to supply real jobs, they are getting poorly paid "staff" for basically nothing. I am all for workfare if it pays minimum wage and results in employment, but it doesn't, it is just free labour for companies that make billions in profits, not to mention the likes of A4e, G4S Serco etc who are paid £14,000 per person that they put on to these schemes. Another reason why I hate workfare, is that if the company that you work for deems it that you haven't worked hard enough, they can phone the DWP and have your meagre benefits sanctioned, so basically people on these schemes are being screwed left right and centre.

Butterfly_Brain

sniggings wrote: »

the public believe it though, I watched the Daily Politics today and there is talk the Houses of commons needs a refurb at a cost of 3 billion :eek:

One minute we are told the country is skint, and then talk of spending 3 billion and 12 billion on the Olympics! I must admit it, I was starting to believe the spin but now realise that Labour have been proved right in saying the cutting have been too fast and too deep, and the Tories can not be trusted, not just with the NHS but in power again.

I will be ringing my local Labour party and offering my services, even if it's just posting leaflets through doors.

I will never vote for any of the big three again, don't forget that ESA and Atos testing started on their watch, Milliband has been surprisingly quiet about all of this, why? Because Labour are all pseudo Tories.

Asylum seekers are treated better than our sick and disabled and they get everything including their electricity and gas paid for, plus they are ferried about in taxis, because they don't speak English :mad: