Office issues - help needed

cuthbertlilly

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mazza111

So they are working at least an hour over every day without pay?

While you are not?

But you grudge them having a smoke break or doc appointment?

Leave it to management. It must be suiting management for them to get an hour free labour from them every day. They aren't getting that from you, so you wouldn't have any TOIL accrued.

It's not something I would recommend building TOIL time, as there's always one person who doesn't like it. It's not something you're entitled to as stated in the contract, just seems like the manager is being more flexible with these 2 because they are basically working for nothing every day.

Aryndeneth

rj2009 wrote: »

However, management are saying I have no TOIL to use.

How can I approach this with management in order to ensure fairness? As I believe the others are milking the system.

Have you put together the case for why you think you are owed TOIL? You've mentioned the extra time your colleagues work but not the extra that you've done.

I would present this to manangement (number of extra hours worked and the reasons you had to do extra work) and get their position on whether TOIL is applicable?

If they say it's not, ask them to clarify why your situation is not TOIL but colleagues in comparable roles get TOIL. Be very clear that you are asking only in order to clarify your own understanding of the TOIL policy and not in a way that seems you are accusing anyone of anything.

Once the explanation is given, you can then decide if it's something you feel needs esclation.

kingfisherblue

How do you know the contracts are exactly the same?

cuthbertlilly

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MissSarah1972

mazza111 wrote: »

So they are working at least an hour over every day without pay?

While you are not?

But you grudge them having a smoke break or doc appointment?

Leave it to management. It must be suiting management for them to get an hour free labour from them every day. They aren't getting that from you, so you wouldn't have any TOIL accrued.

It's not something I would recommend building TOIL time, as there's always one person who doesn't like it. It's not something you're entitled to as stated in the contract, just seems like the manager is being more flexible with these 2 because they are basically working for nothing every day.

Just the one smoking break? I bet it's at least 4 lasting 10 mins at a time.

I would be furious if I worked with someone who was allowed smoking breaks. I have worked in places that if you took a smoking break you got no lunch break. You can not have paid breaks to have a fag and then expect a full lunch break.

They the bosses are obviously not seeing them as taking a smoking break as actually taking a break and assume they are working!

How are they working for nothing every day when the time they are probably doing extra is only to make up for the time they are smoking?

ohreally

rj2009 wrote: »

Our contract says no entitlement to flexitime, standard 37.5 hrs a week – and no Time Off In Lieu (TOIL)

To state the obvious, TOIL is available and a precedent permitting it has been established.

What is your existing relationship with management like?

cod3

I think parents can now request flexible working hours. Maybe this has happened since the contracts were made and you are in the dark. Do you have kids, OP?

eamon

Yes they are taking the pi££. But aside from having an informal chat with management and possibly raising a grievance there is little that you can do. But you can be a stickler regarding your own timekeeping. Be at your desk for 8.30 ready for work and stop working at 16.30.
For what its worth I imagine that many workplaces that have flexitime arrangements also suffers from flexi bandits. Management are rarely in early enough to witness this time fraud.

paddyrg

rj2009 wrote: »

because we all sign a standard on size fits all contract

Just as an aside, you would be surprised how wildly contract terms can vary depending on when a person started at a company, how well they negotiated, etc. Everyone says it's 'just a standard contract', but there is no such thing really!

mazza111

MissSarah1972 wrote: »

Just the one smoking break? I bet it's at least 4 lasting 10 mins at a time.

I would be furious if I worked with someone who was allowed smoking breaks. I have worked in places that if you took a smoking break you got no lunch break. You can not have paid breaks to have a fag and then expect a full lunch break.

They the bosses are obviously not seeing them as taking a smoking break as actually taking a break and assume they are working!

How are they working for nothing every day when the time they are probably doing extra is only to make up for the time they are smoking?

So they are working over an hour not getting paid, but you would grudge them 4 x 10 minutes? You see who's getting the better deal out of this don't you? The management. Even if they take their 4 x 10 minutes, they are still getting over an hour of work out of them. It doesn't say if they are taking a lunch break.


I actually was in this position when I worked in RM. Was stuck in the locker, that I could either take a quick puff several times a day, either had a customer coming in or the telephone going. Or the manager could have found someone to cover me for 30 minutes a day so I could take my break. I went in about half hour early (through choice), usually had a coffee and a smoke before I started, and people complained about that, even though it wasn't even at my start time yet :rotfl: RM still got about 20 minutes from me then as I'd do the surcharges before my start time and was usually half our late in leaving, due to how busy the office got at that time. RM definitely got the better deal out of it. When someone complained, I gave the manager the choice. Up to you, you can either find someone to give me a break for 30 minutes or we can continue as we are. Wednesdays were great fun, working from 6:30 - 7pm without an official break. Just eating and having a quick smoke between customers


The OP doesn't state if they start early like the other 2 in the office, or finish late like the other 2 in the office, it looks from the OP that the 2 don't take a lunch break either, or does this not matter to you? Or are you just anti smoking?

Even though I did it for RM, it's not something I would recommend, as you never get the hours that are worked doing it this way.

I can certainly see where people get annoyed with smoke breaks, but if they are making up the time in other ways, then it's between them and the managers surely?