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Office issues - help needed
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post no longer applicable ...0
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post deleted thank you.0
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the times you arrive and leave an office are not the times you work. They do not have to be working at all. Maybe they are just sitting there - yes I have seen this happen. People get in early - company think they are working yet still sitting there with a newspaper after 9am but for sure they are the 1st people out of their seats at 4.58pm and out the door dead on 5pm.So they are working over an hour not getting paid, but you would grudge them 4 x 10 minutes? You see who's getting the better deal out of this don't you? The management. Even if they take their 4 x 10 minutes, they are still getting over an hour of work out of them. It doesn't say if they are taking a lunch break.
I actually was in this position when I worked in RM. Was stuck in the locker, that I could either take a quick puff several times a day, either had a customer coming in or the telephone going. Or the manager could have found someone to cover me for 30 minutes a day so I could take my break. I went in about half hour early (through choice), usually had a coffee and a smoke before I started, and people complained about that, even though it wasn't even at my start time yet :rotfl: RM still got about 20 minutes from me then as I'd do the surcharges before my start time and was usually half our late in leaving, due to how busy the office got at that time. RM definitely got the better deal out of it. When someone complained, I gave the manager the choice. Up to you, you can either find someone to give me a break for 30 minutes or we can continue as we are. Wednesdays were great fun, working from 6:30 - 7pm without an official break. Just eating and having a quick smoke between customers
The OP doesn't state if they start early like the other 2 in the office, or finish late like the other 2 in the office, it looks from the OP that the 2 don't take a lunch break either, or does this not matter to you? Or are you just anti smoking?
Even though I did it for RM, it's not something I would recommend, as you never get the hours that are worked doing it this way.
I can certainly see where people get annoyed with smoke breaks, but if they are making up the time in other ways, then it's between them and the managers surely?0 -
i have emails from numerous managers confirming that TOIL & flexitime is not allowed for ALL staff.
Well there is your answer. It's not allowed for ALL staff but is allowed for SOME staff.
You have to learn to read between the lines here and see whats going on. Certain staff are cosying up to certain managers. You should try it too. Start with something small.. "Boss if i stay 10 minutes late tonight, can i go 10 mins early tomorrow?"
Don't forget, management may make the rules but it doesn't mean they have to stick to them - they have that little thing that the workers don't have: Discretion.0 -
MissSarah1972 wrote: »the times you arrive and leave an office are not the times you work. They do not have to be working at all. Maybe they are just sitting there - yes I have seen this happen. People get in early - company think they are working yet still sitting there with a newspaper after 9am but for sure they are the 1st people out of their seats at 4.58pm and out the door dead on 5pm.
I can only go by my experience of it. As I said, RM got at least 30-60 minutes out of me each day with this, don't get me wrong, I could sit in the office and have my coffee while doing surcharges, albeit in my own time. But because some of the office busy bodies seen this, they still didn't think I had a right to go and have a cigarette at 7:45, even though I wasn't supposed to start until 8 (apart from a Wed) So in effect, I was having my smoke before my start time, and they STILL complained about it. Obviously because other people were starting before me, they assumed I was supposed to be starting earlier than I was. Was a crowd of them all at their vans one morning. When I yelled to get their attention and informed them that my start time was 8am. And if anyone had an objection to me having a smoke before my shift started, to come to me instead of going to management!
As I said, I wouldn't advise it, cos management will only agree to this if it suits them, the employer is usually the one who loses out. I didn't start until 8, it was my choice to do some surcharges while I was having my morning coffee. I could have stood outside and had 10 cigs and there's not a thing that could have been done as I hadn't started yet.
RJ I still think this is a bit of come and go with these other 2 employees. They may be being more flexible with them as they are doing unpaid hours (or in the office without working) .You still haven't answered my question as to whether you are doing any unpaid work, not that you should, but the other 2 are? Am I reading that correctly? It seems to me that's where the TOIL is being accrued.4 Stones and 0 pounds or 25.4kg lighter :j0 -
My husband works in a really hard environment - he gets to leave early every day (about 20 minutes early). However, despite the fact he has the same contract as his colleagues, he has reached an agreement with the management in order to go home early. It is a private arragement and the business of no one else.
Perhaps you should spend less time fretting over what your colleagues are doing and concentrate on your own work.0 -
No no no! TOIL is not available to any employees; the other two have got some sort of "secret arrangement".
That's a huge assumption, and also illogical since it appears to be the worst kept secret in the workplace.So I am a potential "whistleblower" of this secret arrangement actually.
I suggest you look up the law on protected disclosures because what you are suggesting is not "whsitleblowing" in any shape or form.my relationship with mgt is good.
I suspect that that is about to change. Along with any "good relationship" you may have with your colleagues too.No, no employees in the company are allowed to work flexibly - as the client demands certain working hours are stuck to.
it is in writing in a formal policy that flexi/TOIL is not to be taken in any circumstances due to client need.
It's really easy to write a generic policy. It is much harder to have that policy conform with the law. Especially since, if they do not have a formal arrangement, they have been happily working flexibly and the impact on the client has been such that the client hasn't noticed! So it would be hard to justify an argument that it isn't possible. You also have still not established that (a) the employees in question have not asserted their legal right to ask for flexible working and had that granted or that (b) it is any of your business what contractual terms they are on. There are, by your calculation, two sets of management here. They either know, or they don't care, because not having noticed isn't really an option is it?0 -
Inaccurate information here.0
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A post as full of pomposity and assumption of unknown details I have yet to see - until then.
I'm not sure exaxtly what it is you're trying to achieve here.
a. no-one knows about the flexi/TOIL arrangement going on apart from me (and a few others in a small dept.) How do you know?
b. there are in excess of 100 staff at different branches, none of whom are allowed flexi/TOIL, but the other 2 staff in my dept. are breaking this workplace rule (for their own benefit, not business benefit). How do you know?
c. there are two sets of mgt - line mgt at a different site (who do not allow flexi/TOIL under any circumstance How do you know? - and if true, this may be illegal....) and task mgt in the office where we work.
You really DO need to do more research before making these statements. I foresee you in a tribunal, without a job, being reduced to mincemeat. :eek:
Supposing your fellow staff members have caring responsibilities, for example. Why would you know about these? I stress that this is only an example. You seem to me to be jumping to conclusions and carrying chips on your shoulders that may have no basis in fact.Ex board guide. Signature now changed (if you know, you know).0 -
It seems to me that you need to make it more widely known.
If these people are off using TOIL get one of the clients or managers or other to need to contact them about something.
Or make sure that there is something you need to refer to them and can't because they are off.
So when asked you can say I need to wait till Jim is back at work to find that out.
Arrange meetings to coinside with the TOIL0
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