esa50/atos etc

Muttleythefrog

stallion4u wrote: »

I've never yet come across anybody that has had an ESA113 issued on their case.
How rare is it?

If in fact it is quite common, what then is the point of filling out the ESA50 when the DWP can get the info direct from the GP?

My understanding is that ATOS will send GP one if they determine they've sufficient information to provide advice to DWP regarding WCA without need for medical but where they do feel confirmation of problems is necessary. i.e... it's a middle of the road option.. where facts already in the process insufficient but face to face medical probably overkill. How common it is I don't know... I had one at my last reassessment and it was referred to in the ESA85A ATOS report.. I suspect many people won't be aware of the existence of the document in their case and that in many cases the GP won't respond in time... they only gave my GP about 2 weeks. I've seen a couple of cases recently like for the OP here where I suspect the short time given to the GP to complete ESA113 has been insufficient to prevent ATOS going on to order a medical (probably under pressure of time to provide advice to DWP) but where it was returned while awaiting the medical appointment which was then duly cancelled.

tiajeni

Not sure if this is any assistance or not, but my GP was sent ESA113 a couple of months ago for confirmation of what I had put down on my ESA50. I have not had any further letters as yet.

earthbound_misfit

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

They determined a face to face medical was not required if your GP could complete the GP form ESA113 and confirm your problems.

How much weight do you think they give to this? If they only give 2 weeks for the GP to fill it in/return it, does this mean a lot of GPs don't return the form? I'm interested in the fact that a GP can influence the outcome in this way - considering they don't take their word via 'fit notes' for longer than 3 months. It seems like a bit of a 'back door' to ESA. I have a friend who is very mentally unwell but has a brilliant GP so I'm hoping we can make sure the ESA113 is filled in so he has every chance of avoiding an Atos assessment/no doubt appeal.

To the OP: it does sound like you've been granted ESA at some rate. Just keep checking that your money goes in. Have you had an Atos assessment before or had to appeal? I believe they are now taking this into account on reassessment, especially if not long after winning an appeal.

Muttleythefrog

earthbound_misfit wrote: »

How much weight do you think they give to this? If they only give 2 weeks for the GP to fill it in/return it, does this mean a lot of GPs don't return the form? I'm interested in the fact that a GP can influence the outcome in this way - considering they don't take their word via 'fit notes' for longer than 3 months. It seems like a bit of a 'back door' to ESA. I have a friend who is very mentally unwell but has a brilliant GP so I'm hoping we can make sure the ESA113 is filled in so he has every chance of avoiding an Atos assessment/no doubt appeal.

To the OP: it does sound like you've been granted ESA at some rate. Just keep checking that your money goes in. Have you had an Atos assessment before or had to appeal? I believe they are now taking this into account on reassessment, especially if not long after winning an appeal.

Well... to be honest the black box impression I get is that ATOS HCPs take a path of minimal resistance. And by that I mean do the minimum to achieve what they aim to achieve. The ESA113 completed by my GP contradicts the ESA85A... yet they refer to it in the ESA85A to justify their opinion... it doesn't support their opinion unless they look in extremely general terms at the fact it declared I am deteriorating. What they seem to have done is actually been persuaded by the previous ESA85 medical report that I included and said that I agreed with the conclusion of in my ESA50. There's absolutely no way the ESA113 could lead them to the conclusion the exceptional circumstances descriptor they find to apply does apply unless they effectively overrode its particulars with previous ESA85 and possibly my current ESA50. But generally speaking I would think they will pay significant attention to it.

Regarding GP. Fit notes are irrelevant to the main phase of ESA... the WCA doesn't look at whether you're 'unfit for work'. THe ESA113 isn't a great form but it eludes to this fact in what information it prompts for.. namely information broadly in line with the functional areas tested in the WCA. I suspect a lot of GPs don't get the ESA113 back in time... ATOS are under pressure to give timely advice to the DWP on WCA so they will be under pressure to arrange a medical if the GP doesn't give them information they need in timely fashion.

For info purposes here is the ATOS email content after I enquired whether they'd received my ESA50.

We received your ESA50 on 31/1/2012. We have approached your GP for further
information regarding your medical conditions on 2/2/2012. If this is received
in a timely manner a healthcare professional will be able to advise whether a
face to face assessment is required or whether we are able to provide advice to
the Decision Maker without the need for a face to face assessment. If the
information is not returned you will most likely be called to attend an
assessment.

A couple weeks later following enquiry as to progress:

I can advise that your referral was closed on 23rd February 2012 and returned to
Newcastle Benefit Centre. You are not required to attend an assessment at this
stage.

Muttleythefrog

tiajeni wrote: »

Not sure if this is any assistance or not, but my GP was sent ESA113 a couple of months ago for confirmation of what I had put down on my ESA50. I have not had any further letters as yet.

THat's quite a while ago.. I recommend you call DWP and ask if decision has been made on (re-)assessment. Request copy of ESA85A and ESA113. The documents could be useful at next assessment or shed light on decision not yet taken.... it should be noted the DWP is extremely poor at administrating ESA such that getting letter confirming decision of assessment is hit and miss.

tiajeni

Hi Muttley

A lot has happened since. Been for my Atos Medical, a number of errors on it, glaring one said I had not worked for 11 years. I replied, try 9 months (giggle). Still waiting for the decision from the brown envelope in the post (sometime this year apparently)
I was told that there was a delay due to the amount of appeals they are having to deal with. My response on the telephone was that if they actually read the forms and the letters from the Doctor, there would be no need for the appeals from the people who really need this assistance. Me included!
Await.