Excel parking Peel Centre Stockport

vickyt87

Dear all, this is my first time on this forum. I was given a parking ticket by Excel a couple of days ago when we were shopping at the Peel centre in Stockport that we feel is unfair.

My husband has pointed me to these fora, and advised me to ignore it as it's unenforceable but I feel somewhat uneasy about this- I'm worried about being taken to court or having bailiffs turn up at the front door. He also says that they'll get my details from the DVLA as the car owner, but it shouldn't matter as the ticket is against the driver rather than the car owner- however, the place is packed full of CCTV cameras, and I'm sure they can find out who was driving that way.

He tells me about a case in the same car-park where somebody got off because the signs weren't clear, but I'm worried though as this guy was taken to court by them in the first place! The other thing is that this ticket is for £60 at the moment, going up to £100 after a week or so, and if they add on solicitors fees on both sides, debt recovery and court costs, it could be very expensive. I'd feel happier paying up now, but my husband's trying to stop me doing this- which goes against everything in my nature.

What should I do?

Stephen_Leak

Only councils, the police, some train operators and Transport for London can issue legally enforceable fines or penalties. A private ticketing company can't. What they issue are “speculative invoices”.

Any warning signs are usually so badly positioned and worded, that they won’t have created a fair and legally binding deemed contract with a driver entering the car park in the first place. See The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997 and Excel Parking Services vs. Cutts, Stockport, 2011. (This is the case you refer to.)

All the car park owner can claim from a driver in damages for an alleged breach of a contract is what they’ve lost as a result. If it’s in a free car park or the driver paid, this is £0.00. Demanding more has been judged to be unreasonable and, therefore, an unfair contract penalty under the terms of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997. See Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. vs. New Garage & Motor Co. Ltd., House of Lords, 1914 and countless cases since.

There are also now landmark court cases, VCS Parking Control vs. Ronald Ibbotson, S!!!!horpe, 2012, HM Revenue & Customs vs. VCS Parking Control, Lower Tax Tribunal, 2012 and VCS Parking Control vs. HM Revenue & Customs (Appeal), Upper Tax Tribunal, 2012. In these cases, the judges ruled that only the car park owner can charge for parking and take alleged offenders to court. The Upper Tax Tribunal is equivalent to the High Court and, therefore, its judgements set legal precedents. No private ticketing company or car park owner has taken any alleged offender to court since. (VCS is part of Excel.)

The private ticketing company, then a debt collector and then a solicitor will send you a series of letters. The debt collector and solicitor are usually the same people, but using different headed paper. These letters will threaten you with every kind of financial and legal unpleasantness imaginable to try and intimidate you into paying.

The final but more unpleasant threats usually include mentioning that, if the case goes to court, a county court judgement (CCJ) may be issued, that bailiffs may be appointed and that your credit rating may be ruined. For things to actually get to this stage, the car park owner would have to take you to court and win the case. Then, you would have to refuse to pay, to get a CCJ issued after 28 days. Then, you would have to still refuse to pay, to get bailiffs appointed.

Continue to ignore everything you get from them. Eventually, they’ll run out of empty threats and stop throwing good money after bad.

PS. How could they identify you from any CCTV footage? They don't know you from Eve.

pogofish

Don't pay - This is a bare faced scam and Excel don't have any authority to charge you for anything.

Ignoring them is the way to go - check the forum sticky to see the letter chains for an idea of what to expect from them and so you can tick them off as they arrive. You could also have a search in the forum for more people who have been ticketed by them in the same place. I think there are quite a few.

tospig

You need to go against your nature and listen to your husband!


There are literally thousands of stories on here from people who have been in the same situation as you and they have happily ignored all their tickets.
If it helps, I've received 6 and am ignoring them all

Spider_Soprano

I had an unenforceable invoice from there in March. You will get 2 final demands from Excel, 2 final demands from Roxborugh debt collectors and 2 final demands threatening court action from a turd called Graham White, all of which can be ignored or used as toilet paper. Read up on the hundreds of posts on here, that will soon put your mind at rest. As for being taken to court, it won't happen.

Coupon-mad

vickyt87 wrote: »

I was given a parking ticket by Excel a couple of days ago when we were shopping at the Peel centre in Stockport that we feel is unfair.

Private parking 'tickets' are fake PCNs and are always unfair.

vickyt87 wrote: »

My husband has pointed me to these fora, and advised me to ignore it as it's unenforceable but I feel somewhat uneasy about this- I'm worried about being taken to court or having bailiffs turn up at the front door.

Your husband is right!

Almost no cases go to Court and their can be NO BAILIFFS without them winning first (which they would not, anywhere, but certainly NOT at the Peel Centre where they didn't bother to change their signs after the judge tore into them!). Bailiffs can actually only come round if someone loses in Court and then still doesn't pay...doesn't sound like you...?!

vickyt87 wrote: »

He also says that they'll get my details from the DVLA as the car owner, but it shouldn't matter as the ticket is against the driver rather than the car owner- however, the place is packed full of CCTV cameras, and I'm sure they can find out who was driving that way.

He is right, they buy the data from the DVLA but it makes no difference.

I am sure they will NOT see who was driving that way, I have never ever known it. They are not going to bother to trawl through old CCTV footage just to see a blurred figure get out of a car. Even if the pic was crystal clear, how exactly would they know the name of that face? They don't have a mugshot database of everyone in the UK!

Even where victims have admitted it was them driving, we still say ignore because nothing will happen.

vickyt87 wrote: »

He tells me about a case in the same car-park where somebody got off because the signs weren't clear, but I'm worried though as this guy was taken to court by them in the first place!

That was the only case we know about that Excel tried last year and the 'somebody' in question was Martin Cutts, who has been very vocal about the generic scam of PPC fake PCNs. This speech was to a summit of parking bigwigs, have a laugh imagining their faces at their jolly lunch!:

http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/plcdev/files/138/original/CuttsTalk10July2012copy.pdf

vickyt87 wrote: »

The other thing is that this ticket is for £60 at the moment, going up to £100 after a week or so, and if they add on solicitors fees on both sides, debt recovery and court costs, it could be very expensive.

It is not a real parking ticket nor a fine. It is ZERO now and will remain ZERO.

vickyt87 wrote: »

I'd feel happier paying up now, but my husband's trying to stop me doing this- which goes against everything in my nature.

No, please, you really wouldn't feel happier paying a fake PCN, lining the already-heavy pockets of this rich horsy man:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2150551/Thousands-beat-parking-fines-judge-tackles-766k-Mr-Clampit-landmark-penalty-claim-case.html

As you can see, he may be smug and rich but based on recent 'form' he isn't very good at Court cases and WILL NOT be trying one again in a hurry - particularly not at the Peel Centre! The VCS case was in that link the only one we know about he tried under that company's name this year as well and he lost badly. That was on top of HMRC taking VCS to Court over tax, VCS were silly enough to take the matter to appeal and thereby earned a Higher Court decision - binding on all lower Courts! - saying that they actually have NO contract with any drivers and cannot take people to Court where they don't own an interest in the land.

Excel have no ownership or lease or proprietary interest in the Peel Centre Car park. All they have are some signs up, just like a load of squatters with posters stuck up in someone else's property. You are perfectly safe to ignore your fake PCN!

Like you I am just an ordinary wife, and not paying a bill goes against my nature as well (but this isn't a bill, isn't a debt anyway). I have a responsible job with an enhanced CRB check; I also used to work in a Bank so would never risk my credit rating either. But I have cheerfully laughed at two fake PCNs myself and I come on here every day to tell people to ignore these pieces of paper as they are no more worth paying than a Nigerian email scammer.

marleyboy

Stick in window next time you visit

SodG24

Firstly, ignore Excel and the quite frankly their daft threats they put in their letters - totally unenforceable.

Let me ask you a question, if I took a photo of a random stranger in the street and showed it to you would you be able to name them ?

I'm guessing in your mind you've answered no ? So what makes you think that a Pirate Parking Company such as Excel ( and yes it's not a typo ! ) can identify a random person from a photo ?

Excel have no rights over the land - i.e. they don't own it or have a lease over it and so can't charge you for what ever "offence" they claim. It's nothing short of a scam so ignore them.If you're really that worried PM me and I'll give you my details to put forward as the driver - I'll have a lot of fun with Excel !

vickyt87

Thank you for all your kind messages and help. I'll await the letters with interest, and a bit less trepidation!

Stephen_Leak

We have all of the Excel/VCS, Roxburghe and Graham White letters on a "sticky" thread on this forum. The link is on Coupon-mad's signature. So, you can read them and scare the !!!! out of yourself all in one go and get it over with. Then, when they do arrive, you can play SNAP! with them and see if you get to collect the full set.

By the way, Roxburghe are debt collectors, but they have the same legal powers to collect money as you and I. They're under investigation by the Office of Fair Trading, who are "minded to revoke their licence".

Graham White are actually the same people as Roxburghe. Compare the signatures on their letters. They are solicitors, but only because they pay a retired solicitor, Michael Sobell, to use his name. They're under investigation by the Solicitors Regulation Authority for threatening people with legal action that they can't actually take.

chambta

marleyboy wrote: »

Stick in window next time you visit

I want one of those!