Absence because of pet death

NeverEnough

ILW wrote: »

You do not have to convince your GP, most will sign you off even if they are very suspicious. They cannot prove you do not have depression though.

Yes they can. There are defined clinical criteria to be met for a diagnosis of a depressive episode. They can also refer the patient to a psychiatrist for further assessment and diagnosis if the GP is uncertain.

Many non-medically qualified people confuse unhappiness with clinical depression - there is a huge difference between the two. Everyone is unhappy at some or other point in a lifespan, but not everyone suffers depression. Becoming a GP or Consultant Psychiatrist takes in excess of 10-12 years and making a diagnosis of depression is not just a case of seeing someone unhappy with their current circumstances / relationship and brandingr it as depression - there are clear clinical criteria to be met first, which are not easy to fake over an extended period, the years of training and experience do actually mean that doctors can make that diagnosis with some certainty.

The_Saver_2

It's interesting how this thread has really gripped people. In my experience, this subject promotes one of 2 main responses: those who sympathise but think you have to deal with the problem and then move on, and those who think people are too intolerant of stress/depression. I'm afraid, personally, I really struggle with the 2 weeks' sick leave. I strongly believe that sitting at home only allows you to dwell on something and just makes the upset or depression last even longer. It's far better, I believe, to get back into your daily routine as quickly as possible.

I also have an issue with some of the medical profession and I'm concerned that the lady was signed off for 2 weeks. Why did the Dr not sign her off a week and then reassess the situation after that? I have had management experience of someone being signed off by stress and the added stress and pressure it put on their colleagues was significant. (Interestingly, those colleagues that covered her post could have gone off with stress themselves but they didn't). I'm afraid to say, in my case, the individual stayed off all the time they were on full pay but, miraculously, returned to work 2 days before they would have been reduced to half-pay.

I know this will attract criticism from some but I suspect the presence of stress/depression in those who are self-employed (or who don't get sick pay) is significantly lower than those who get full pay when they are off sick.

Savvy_Sue

Errata wrote: »

Not so, when the manager gave the worker 3 days sick leave without benefit of medical opinion.

I think the manager just responded with 'go home, take the rest of the week' because they could see the person was very upset and not likely to be much use at work. THEN they went to the GP.

ktothema wrote: »

I don't think the manager gave 3 days sick leave, I think they gave 2.whatever days compassionate. Which is very generous but doesn't seem out of line with D70s company's ethos. The employee was subsequently signed off sick.

That seems to me to be what happened too.

Going back to phased returns: we don't know if it's the GP who's suggested it, or the person who's just lost their cat. Either way, I'd expect to have the discussion before returning to the workplace, either with the benefit of a Fit Note recommending it, or as a personal request for part-time hours on a temporary basis. But it seems unusual to me after a very short period of sickness.

Uncertain

The_Saver wrote: »

I'm afraid to say, in my case, the individual stayed off all the time they were on full pay but, miraculously, returned to work 2 days before they would have been reduced to half-pay.

I know this will attract criticism from some but I suspect the presence of stress/depression in those who are self-employed (or who don't get sick pay) is significantly lower than those who get full pay when they are off sick.

That is probably because the reduction in income would add an additional serious source of stress to an already difficult problem. It doesn't meant the are fit to return.

I really do wonder if many of the people commenting here have experienced these type of problems first hand or have ever had to support a loved one who has developed serious issues in this area?

I think unless you have you can have no real idea of just how devastating it can be. Knowing that people are talking behind your back and saying (or at least thinking) "pull yourself together" just increases the problem.

I also struggle to understand why so many feel that the GPs have no idea what is best for their patients. Presumably these people would happily take their doctor's advice and treatment for a physical illness so why is this different?

andygb

Could all the people who agree with this person being given sick leave to "adjust" to this problem, please answer this.
Would you still feel the same, if the pet was a budgie, hamster, guinea pig, goldfish, rat, rabbit, snake, spider, lizard, or any of the other animals which people keep as pets, or are you just going to put cats and dogs (maybe horses) up on a pedestal above all other animals?
What about the people who have to cover for this person's work whilst they are away - will they get time off for the extra stress?
As the other workers find out the reason, will this then prompt "jumping on the bandwagon", and then possible claims of discrimination if you fail to treat other people the same way?

ILW

NeverEnough wrote: »

Just because you would react differently does not mean that someone else is to be criticised for not reacting as you would. We are all individuals. Preciousillusions is quite correct.

There is such a thing as an extended bereavement reaction or adjustment disorder, which falls fairly and squarely in the realm of a mental illness like depression. Some people stay off work and get benefits for years and years because they "lost their father10 years ago" and are apparently still depressed about it. No-one seems to have a pop at them. The trauma of losing an animal which you have shared perhaps a third or more of your life with is not insignificant and no-one has the right to deride someone who is struggling to get over such a loss, least of all a bunch of eWarriors with lots of eCourage behind their anonymous forum logins.

I would tell them to grow up and stop being so precious. Sorry.

Sambucus_Nigra

Uncertain wrote: »

I really do wonder if many of the people commenting here have experienced these type of problems first hand or have ever had to support a loved one who has developed serious issues in this area?

At this point, the only serious issue that we have to go on is the death of a pet. So it's not surprising that many of the comments are based around the surprise that someone is signed off because of this alone.

Fire_Fox

dseventy wrote: »

• An employee got a call at work to say their cat had been ran over.
• The manager on site let the employee go home to sort stuff.
• Employee rang back later and said cat was put down by vet
• Employee was very upset.
• Manager said take the rest of the week off (this was Weds) on full pay and come in Monday.
• Today a sick note received from employee citing "stress related disorder" with 2 weeks off work.
• Employee has rang in and spoke to manager and said can't face work, apologised for being off.
• Employee rang back later and asked for a phased return to work over 4 weeks.

Opinions?

D70

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

At this point, the only serious issue that we have to go on is the death of a pet. So it's not surprising that many of the comments are based around the surprise that someone is signed off because of this alone.

Stress related disorder is a mental health issue, death of a pet is a negative life event and is according to the OP is not cited on the doctors certificate. If you honestly believe that only 'serious issues' lead to health problems (physical or mental) you are sorely mistaken. Do you have any healthcare qualifications?

Fire_Fox

The_Saver wrote: »

It's interesting how this thread has really gripped people. In my experience, this subject promotes one of 2 main responses: those who sympathise but think you have to deal with the problem and then move on, and those who think people are too intolerant of stress/depression. I'm afraid, personally, I really struggle with the 2 weeks' sick leave. I strongly believe that sitting at home only allows you to dwell on something and just makes the upset or depression last even longer. It's far better, I believe, to get back into your daily routine as quickly as possible.

I also have an issue with some of the medical profession and I'm concerned that the lady was signed off for 2 weeks. Why did the Dr not sign her off a week and then reassess the situation after that? I have had management experience of someone being signed off by stress and the added stress and pressure it put on their colleagues was significant. (Interestingly, those colleagues that covered her post could have gone off with stress themselves but they didn't). I'm afraid to say, in my case, the individual stayed off all the time they were on full pay but, miraculously, returned to work 2 days before they would have been reduced to half-pay.

I know this will attract criticism from some but I suspect the presence of stress/depression in those who are self-employed (or who don't get sick pay) is significantly lower than those who get full pay when they are off sick.

Why do you think you know more about wellbeing than the medical profession? There is plenty of research on the acute and chronic effects of working versus being signed off sick, why not research it instead of pontificating?

The OP's employee has been signed off with stress related disorder NOT work related stress. Clinical depression will not resolve in a week, it may improve in two if antidepressants have been prescribed; trait or state anxiety and insomnia might also fall under stress related disorder.

Presence of stress/ depression or time off sick for stress/ depression? Difficult comparison because the self-employed are a self selected group, related in part to their personality type. Research the incidence of suicide, substance abuse and addiction in the self employed, rising at an alarming rate in recent years.

Comparison of the prevalence of substance use & psychiatric disorders between government- & self-employed commercial drivers (2003)
"Five hundred and five city government-employed bus drivers (GED) and 506 self-employed drivers (SED) who were primarily taxi drivers attending annual health check-ups were studied ... The SED group had a higher rate of neurotic problems, psychiatric diagnosis and a higher frequency of substance use than the GED group. These findings suggest that different work style of commercial drivers may contribute to this phenomenon."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12839525

ILW

The person would have been "diagnosed" by their doctor in a consultation that lasted around 10 to 15 minutes. A full examination would have taken weeks. NHS GPs do not have to time and will generally just sign off as the safe and easy option.