The right to die?

1940sGal

pickpocketlocket wrote: »

Is there always hope of curing depression? Some depression is entirely resistant to treatment - I don't see the difference between that and someone with another debilitating condition.

It is also worth noting that there have been instances of individuals with locked in syndrome making a good recovery. I do believe that individuals should have the right to die, but to state that a particular condition should not fall under that right is quite narrow minded - each case needs to be judged on its own merits.

From personal experience of suffering from it then yes, there is always HOPE. I'm not saying that depression is always curable but I would like to think that anyone would hope it is.

Fire_Fox

C_Mababejive wrote: »

I'd like to hear more about the right to live..
1)The right not to be ignored,have medication and nutrition withheld by design or neglect in an NHS hospital
2)The right to have suitable treatment not rationed by NICE or your NHS trust just because of cost.

How do you know there are problems with this occurring? Which specific life saving treatments are being rationed for cost reasons alone and how many deaths result each year? Have you actually researched the NICE or Trust systems for yourself, have you ever worked within the NHS and seen this occurring first hand?

Fire_Fox

1940sGal wrote: »

From personal experience of suffering from it then yes, there is always HOPE. I'm not saying that depression is always curable but I would like to think that anyone would hope it is.

Clinical depression is not considered to be a curable condition, it is only a treatable one. The problem is that depression is frequently comorbid with a raft of significant physical health conditions, some of which severely limit the patient's ability to access effective treatment. For example in the case of someone severely physically disabled, talking therapies would be highly impractical and exercise impossible. If one is housebound or has major mobility issues there are all the challenges of actually getting to see a professional in the first place, you'd need home visits or Skype appointments. Even many who have no major physical health problems have two or more mental health diagnoses, chronic severe clinical depression alone is relatively rare.

1940sGal

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Clinical depression is not considered to be a curable condition, it is only a treatable one. The problem is that depression is frequently comorbid with a raft of significant physical health conditions, some of which severely limit the patient's ability to access effective treatment. For example in the case of someone severely physically disabled, talking therapies would be highly impractical and exercise impossible. If one is housebound or has major mobility issues there are all the challenges of actually getting to see a professional in the first place, you'd need home visits or Skype appointments. Even many who have no major physical health problems have two or more mental health diagnoses, chronic severe clinical depression alone is relatively rare.

After this I see I should have said treatable rather than curable. My thoughts are that someone with depression who has suicidal thoughts could always be treated for them because it is still possible for many to live a fulfilling life, something which was clearly not possible for Tony Nicklinson.

I have lived with depression and at one point did suffer from suicidal thoughts. After a course of treatment I was much better but I admit I am still susceptible to bouts of low feelings (if that's the right term).

However, despite everything I still live in hope that one day a cure can be found for anything currently considered incurable. It's ok to hope.

escortg3

I am totally stuck on this subject.

I understand that some people choose not to live any longer and commit suicide. This i accept as there choice.

I also understand that some people dont want to live any longer but cant commit suicide themselves. Now should someone else do it for them? i dont know that answer.

I really dont think doctors should have the right to end someones life. We could end up with another Dr harold shipman killing patients of. What would i think if i came home and found my dad dead and being told oh thats what he asked the doctor to do.:mad:

If one of my family was in serious enough pain and asked me to end there life after a long period of suffering, would i do it? Yes is the answer.

I would have to face the consequences of the law after the event.

Fuzzy_Duck

Whilst it's clearly not a black and white issue, I lean towards agreeing that people have the right to die. For physically ill people, I don't understand how people can judge them- they have no idea what pain and suffering that person is experiencing, and if there is no hope, and they want to end it, they should be helped.

I also feel that often, it is more a case of LETTING someone die. We do a lot of unnatural things in a bid to keep people alive, including those that don't want to live. I watched my grandparents decline for years, ending up in hospital where they were pumped full of drugs to keep them alive. I will never forget seeing my grandmother battered and bruised from all the tubes shoved in her- it sickened me that we can put down our pets when they are suffering and yet people, who can tell us they want to end their life, have to carry on going. My grandmother lived another week, and I wish she'd been allowed to go naturally and relatively peacefuly, rather than die an undignified death caused by the side effects of the drugs.

I do think regardless of your opinion, there's no way you could not have felt sympathy for Tony Nicklinson when his wish was rejected. He was not going to get better and anyone could see this was something he wanted, and a choice that was supported by his loved ones. If he couldn't change their minds, I doubt anyone can.

Personally, I felt allowing him assisted suicide was the lesser of two evils. But I suppose there were too many issues regarding mentally ill and vulnerable people.

Fire_Fox

escortg3 wrote: »

I am totally stuck on this subject.

I understand that some people choose not to live any longer and commit suicide. This i accept as there choice.

I also understand that some people dont want to live any longer but cant commit suicide themselves. Now should someone else do it for them? i dont know that answer.

I really dont think doctors should have the right to end someones life. We could end up with another Dr harold shipman killing patients of. What would i think if i came home and found my dad dead and being told oh thats what he asked the doctor to do.:mad:

If one of my family was in serious enough pain and asked me to end there life after a long period of suffering, would i do it? Yes is the answer.

I would have to face the consequences of the law after the event.

Doctors already have the power to kill or something very close: they have the power to decide to switch off a machine keeping someone alive, withdraw medication or nutrition.

Assisted suicide wouldn't be anything like Shipman if there was a dossier of evidence required and multiple people involved in the process, perhaps even a court or medical panel. Shipman happened because there were no second checks, he signed the death certificates of his own patients. I can't understand why anyone imagines doctors would have the 'right' to do anything or that it would necessarily be an easy process. That is not the case in Switzerland or Holland where assisted suicide (but not euthanasia) is legal.

escortg3

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Doctors already have the power to kill or something very close: they have the power to decide to switch off a machine keeping someone alive, withdraw medication or nutrition.

Assisted suicide wouldn't be anything like Shipman if there was a dossier of evidence required and multiple people involved in the process, perhaps even a court or medical panel. Shipman happened because there were no second checks, he signed the death certificates of his own patients. I can't understand why anyone imagines doctors would have the 'right' to do anything or that it would necessarily be an easy process. That is not the case in Switzerland or Holland where assisted suicide (but not euthanasia) is legal.

Doctors dont have the power to kill, Turning of someone's life support after a family consultation is not killing someone. I believe they only withdraw medication and nutrition when death is imminent anyway.

I think people should have a choice and we shouldnt let people suffer but i wouldnt like to have doctors ending lives and saving lives. Perhaps there should be a governing body and one specialist centre in each country where people can go by there own choice to be put to sleep, but dont let doctors do it.

pawsies

The case is so sad but I think it was obvious that should he have been refused the right to die he would find some way of dying regardless, which is what happened inevitably.

I also feel for the families who have to go through it. Rather than their loved one dying and them slowly getting over the death, they have to grieve alongside the treatment, knowing and waiting for death which prolongs the grieving process.

It's so hard to make a fair decision for all involved and I know that I want to die with dignity after witnessing similar cases.

If Switzerland have found a way of making it work then the UK should be able to aswell. The most important thing is that the person -wants- to die and I believe they should be reviewed after their declaration to make sure this is what they really want and that there is no going back. They should also receive counselling to ensure the reasons behind it are not 'to ease everyone else' or 'as it's what everyone wants/expects them to do'.

Fire_Fox

escortg3 wrote: »

Doctors dont have the power to kill, Turning of someone's life support after a family consultation is not killing someone. I believe they only withdraw medication and nutrition when death is imminent anyway.

I think people should have a choice and we shouldnt let people suffer but i wouldnt like to have doctors ending lives and saving lives. Perhaps there should be a governing body and one specialist centre in each country where people can go by there own choice to be put to sleep, but dont let doctors do it.

Are you saying don't let any doctors do it or don't let all doctors do it? Who would staff the specialist centre if not doctors?