Housing Benefit -Asked personal questions about shared tenants

PapaOscar1

Hi, I live in a shared accomodation and have put in a claim for Housing Benefit. I have been asked for the following:

"The tenancy agreement states there are shared areas of the property. Please confirm the names, dates of birth and relationship of any other person living at the property"

"Please provide proof of income for any other person living at the property".

"If I do not receive all of the above information by 27th August we will write to tell you that your claim has been suspended...this means that you may lose benefit..."

I have nothing to do with them, how am I supposed to ask them for their dates of birth and payslips?

This was originally a council house rented by my mother and my brother bought it under her right to buy. I moved back here in 2008 after my brother and his wife split up and soon my brother was diagnosed with terminal cancer. My brother passed away in 2010 & his estranged wife inherited the property. This caused many problems and she has rented rooms to people who have created a nuisance, seemingly on purpose. I have been claiming ESA because of the stress I am under and my mother is also suffering due to the situation here.

My mother had an agreement that she would have a 25% share in the house, but was 'persistently persuaded' to sell that to my brother & his wife for £2000 per year. She also has an agreement that she will always live here and has her own kitchen, bathroom, etc, while I share a bathroom, kitchen, etc. The letter also asks:

...there were condition set on the sale of the property when your mother sold it to your brother & his wife. Please state what these conditions were & provide proof.

My mother has been claiming Pension Credit. She says she declared the £2000 p/a, but cannot remember the details because it was over 7 years ago. She says she was told at the time that it was not affected by income from the sale of a property if her savings did not exceed a certain amount (she has hardly anything). I am worried about whether that is correct in case she has received too much as a result. I started the claim in May and have still not received anything so I have borrowed money on a credit card to pay the rent.

dseventy

PapaOscar1 wrote: »

Hi, I live in a shared accomodation and have put in a claim for Housing Benefit from Dacorum Borough Council. I have been asked for the following:

I have nothing to do with them, how am I supposed to ask them for their dates of birth and payslips?.

Claiming HB means you cant pay the rent yourself and rely on others to do it for you.

The others in this case is the government.

By asking for help you are inviting the state into your life, when you make that invite, you need to answer the questions they ask.

PapaOscar1 wrote: »

This was originally a council house rented by my mother and my brother bought it under her right to buy. I moved back here in 2008 after my brother and his wife split up and soon my brother was diagnosed with terminal cancer. My brother passed away in 2010 & his estranged wife inherited the property. This caused many problems and she has rented rooms to people who have created a nuisance, seemingly on purpose. I have been claiming ESA because of the stress I am under and my mother is also suffering due to the situation here.

My mother had an agreement that she would have a 25% share in the house, but was 'persistently persuaded' to sell that to my brother & his wife for £2000 per year. She also has an agreement that she will always live here and has her own kitchen, bathroom, etc, while I share a bathroom, kitchen, etc.

Thats a complicated story (and sorry to hear of brothers death) but in a nutshell:

• Mother and brother rented house
• Mother and brother bought house under RTB
• You moved in while brother alive but split from wife
• Brother died
• Brothers wife inherited property
• Brothers wife rented rooms out
• You got stress because of this and claimed ESA.
• Mother kept 25% of property share
• Mother sold to this sister in Law
• Mother still lives there
• You still live there?

All this true?

My questions are

• What benefits does your mum claim?
• Is she being paid 2K a year?
• Do you still live in the house with your mum?
• Who are you paying rent to?
• Does that person who you pay rent to accept credit cards (for rent)?
• On your mothers claim for pension credit, has she declared the money?
• Why would she give up a 25% share of property for 2K a year?

It all sounds messy and complicated, and frankly a lot of "dodgey" dealings to claim and maximise benefits. I am not surprised you are getting a lot of questions. I am glad the system asks them though.

Answer the questions and you should get more taliored help.

D70

keet83

You should state that you pay for your room not the building. As long as you only share a bathroom and kitchen then it should not be a problem. I had the same issue with the Glasgow council a while ago, however once I informed them that I paid separate rent for my room, only shared the kitchen and bathroom and had nothing to do with the other person in the flat, they started paying the benefit with no problems.

PapaOscar1

Thanks, dseventy.

Your summary is correct. These are the answers to your questions:

• Yes, I still live there. My mother lives here, in her own 'flat', sharing only the hallway. Although she lives under the same roof, nobody shares any other rooms with her.
• My mother gets Pension Credit.
• I pay rent to my sister-in-law (my late brother's estranged wife).
• She would not accept credit cards.
• My mother sold her share after 4 years of being nagged, told she was being selfish, etc, when my brother and his wife were living here. My sister-in-law and mother have not gotten on since then, hence my sister-in-law will happily cause trouble.
• My mother says she declared the £2000 per year when it started. All she remembers is she was told that you could still claim Pension Credit after selling a house if your savings do not exceed a certain limit. She has given me a copy of her agreement to send to the Housing Benefit department because she is sure she has done nothing wrong. She is 70, has been treated for stress for many years and is not very 'with it' so I am worried about whether she has this correct because it sounds odd to me.

I agree this is messy and have asked my mother to get a solicitor because I think she has been treated disgracefully, but she cannot afford it. She does receive the £2000 per year, but was coerced into agreeing to selling her share and certainly did not expect the house to be rented out to pay that. Every time I try to talk about it she loses her temper with me.

epitome

You could argue that your mothers finances are not your concern, she lives in a seperate flat, you rent from your landlady and so do not see why they have a right to this information.

If you have a tennacy agreement for your room only it is usually the case that other people living there (who also have seperate tennacy agreements) should not come into the equation. And so you dispute the councils right to ask for personal data for people who have nothing to do with you.

If they refuse you HB, appeal their decision.

Perhaps your mother can go and see CAB/legal advice about being coerced against her will to sell for a small sum...

PapaOscar1

Thanks, keet83, but I told them back in May that I had my own room and was sharing other rooms and it has taken them months to query it.

Thanks, epitome, I cannot see how they think I am entitled to ask people for this information either, but the letter clearly states they will not pay me if I do not. Unfortunately, the council are a law unto themselves and I had a similar experience with them in the 90s that left me homeless. I am hoping to be able to speak to the CAB, but they are difficult to get appointments with in this area.

My mother has spoken to the CAB and they also told her to get a solicitor to sort it out. This type of dispute does not qualify for Legal Aid, either.

CIS

You may find that under regulation 7 the HB claim will be disallowed:

People who cannot get Housing Benefit [HB Reg 7]

Close relatives

You cannot claim HB if you live in the same dwelling as your landlord, and they are a close relative of you or your partner.
A close relative is a:

• parent
• or step-parent
• or father-in-law or mother-in-law
• or child
• or step-child
• or son-in-law or daughter-in-law
• or brother or sister
• or brother-in-law or sister-in-law
• or partner of any of the above.

PapaOscar1

CIS, my landlady (my sister-in-law) does not live here. I moved in here after she split up with my brother and moved out, but your advice is appreciated.

enabledebra

This does seem very tangled but from my reading of the info given:

The property is a house in multiple occupation – you rent a room and have ACCESS to communal areas- you are not joint tenants in these other people and nobody is anybody else's 'non-dependent/lodger etc'. so not an issue for HB once this is cleared up.

You do not live with your mother or sister in law so whoever is the landlord you are not ‘living with’ them – your sister in law doesn’t live in the building and you don’t share any living space with your mum- she has her own self- contained accommodation within the same building. = not an issue for HB entitlement

The real issue which could call into question entitlement to HB is- do you rent the accommodation on a commercial basis and/or is the tenancy ‘contrived’ to take advantage of the Housing Benefit scheme?

Your post seems to say that you moved into the house in 2008 but have just put in a claim for HB? The questions they will be looking at are things like- When did your tenancy start – after you’d moved in or straight away? Were you paying/charged rent prior to the HB claim? Were you previously a non- dependent living in your mums household before the property was split up into bedsits and a self contained flat? Why did you move in? What would happen if you failed to pay the rent etc.

Further info here:

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/hbgm-a3-liability-to-make-payments.pdf

PS who pays the council tax? This info might clear some issues up.

PapaOscar1

Hi, enabledebra, thanks for your post. Yes, it is very tangled! I share parts of the house with the other tenants, but not as a joint tenancy. My sister-in-law does not live here, but my mother lives in a self-contained part of the house.

Originally I was renting a house from my brother and his wife, but had to move out when they split up in 2008 and she moved in there, while I moved into this house and was living with my brother and mother. My brother paid the bills, etc, and I continued paying him. I was working, but was made redundant in August 2010. I continued paying from my savings. I shared living space with him and my mother already had self-contained space.

I believe my living here became a tenancy after my brother passed away and I started paying my sister-in-law. I continued paying rent from my savings, expecting I would be able to get back to work soon.

Some time after my brother and sister-in-law split up, they took out a mortgage on this house to buy my sister-in-law another house. She is using the proceeds from this house to pay for that. If I did not pay the rent the mortgage would not be repaid on this house. It seems that my sister-in-law had this all planned out when my brother was ill and pressured him into it, but that's another story.

My sister-in-law pays the council tax, but the letter queries this because the bills are still addressed to my mother and she just sends them on to her. That did not matter when my brother was here, but I suppose because my mother and sister-in-law avoid speaking it has not been changed.

enabledebra

It certainly sounds like everything needs to be formally cleared up before housing benefit would be satisfied about the reality of the situation.

Firstly, you need to get some advice from a housing law specialist about your status in the house and your mum needs a solicitor as others have said. AFTER you have clarified your rights regarding living in this property with a housing adviser you need to get something in writing about your status in the property with whoever turns out to have the right to grant a tenancy to you- as your mum is being held liable for the council tax it's not clear who actually owns this house and ownership seems to have changed whilst you have been living there. (where the house is in multiple occupation it's the owner who the council charges council tax to)

You can find both here and get some initial advice about whether any costs will be involved (your advice is likely to be free (as it's about tenant's rights) but your mum may have to pay for advice:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Diol1/DoItOnline/DG_4017581

As a starting point to find out what's what with on with ownership here you can check with the land registry http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/online-services