Athena ANPR Ltd - Lidl Leatherhead

mog3

I have received a civil parking charge notice for staying in the Lidl car park 15 minutes too long. What makes me mad is the car is entering the car park but not parked, it takes a lifetime to find a space. What will happen if I don't pay it. I have looked at posts about this on the internet but they are quite old and I don't want to get an even bigger fine. Does anyone know what I should do? Many thanks

taffy056

Ignore them, what happens if you ignore them is that you will save that money to go to aldi instead, make sure you complain to lidl via email witha scan of your receipt from aldi saying that they have lost your custom because of the scamming cowboys they have in the car park

mog3

Hi Taffy

Thanks for your reply. So you say I just ignore them and they will send much worse letters to me and then if I keep ignoring them they will go away? What about when I park there again as I use Lidl weekly. I shall definitely complain to their head office, but I have a husband who will insist I pay because he doesn't like a fight.

taffy056

That's what exactly what I'm saying, just ignore them and their agents as all they send is threats of holy damnation and legal claptrap. After a few letters they go away with no money as they know you are not a mug. Why not take a look at the sticky threads on top of the forum to see what you'll get, and watch the videos on the link with your husband.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3164256

The_Slithy_Tove

mog3 wrote: »

What will happen if I don't pay it. I have looked at posts about this on the internet but they are quite old

What??? Where are you looking? You managed to reach this forum in order to start a thread. Didn't you see the all the pretty recent threads with exactly the same avice? In the Twitter world they might be "quite old", i.e. more than an hour, but honestly, just take a look.

AltheHibby

Mog,
take advantage of him not liking a fight and park his butt in front of your PC. Then tell him to read this thread and take you out for a nice meal with the money you've saved!

Stephen_Leak

Only councils, the police, train operators and Transport for London can impose legally enforceable fines or penalties. A private ticketing company can't. All they can issue are “speculative invoices”.

Any warning signs are usually so badly positioned and worded, that they won’t have created a fair and legally binding deemed contract with a driver entering the car park in the first place. See The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997 and Excel Parking Services vs. Cutts, Stockport, 2011.

All the car park owner can claim from a driver in damages for any alleged breach of any alleged contract is what they’ve lost as a result. If it’s in a free car park or the driver paid, this is £0.00. Demanding more has been judged to be unreasonable and therefore an unfair contract penalty under the terms of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997, which is not legally enforceable. See Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. vs. New Garage & Motor Co. Ltd., House of Lords, 1914 and countless cases since.

There are also now landmark court cases, VCS Parking Control vs. Ronald Ibbotson, S!!!!horpe, 2012, HM Revenue & Customs vs. VCS Parking Control, Lower Tax Tribunal, 2012 and VCS Parking Control vs. HM Revenue & Customs (Appeal), Upper Tax Tribunal, 2012. In these cases, the judges ruled that only the car park owner can charge for parking and take alleged offenders to court. The Upper Tax Tribunal is equivalent to the High Court and, therefore, its judgements set legal precedents.

We don’t condone not paying or overstaying in a pay car park. If you owe the car park owner the original charge, then you ought to write to them, offering this in “full and final settlement”.

In any event, you should write to the car park owner, advising them that they are "jointly and severally liable" for the actions of their agents and that any further actions by either of them would be regarded as harassment under the terms of The Protection from Harassment Act 1997. This ought to make the car park owner call off the private ticketing company and, maybe, also realise the potential cost of doing business with them.

Don’t appeal to the private ticketing company. They always reject them. What’s in it for them to let anyone off?

If the letter to the car park owner doesn’t have the desired effect, then the private ticketing company, then a debt collector and then a solicitor will send you a series of letters. The debt collector and solicitor are usually the same people, but using different headed paper. These letters will threaten you with every kind of financial and legal unpleasantness imaginable to try and intimidate you into paying.

Continue to ignore everything you get from them. Eventually, they will run out of empty threats and stop throwing good money after bad.

mog3

Dear Slithy Tove, very funny reply indeed. I was not on MoneySavingExpert,com I was just browsing the internet and getting frustrated so I turned to this website to ask a question I knew someone would answer. Also navigating forums, having to sign in etc, made me lose the will to live. Anyway Steve, I am very grateful for your reply and I shall show it to my husband, watch the video and wait for letters to arrive..........................

Coupon-mad

mog3 wrote: »

Hi Taffy

Thanks for your reply. So you say I just ignore them and they will send much worse letters to me and then if I keep ignoring them they will go away? What about when I park there again as I use Lidl weekly. I shall definitely complain to their head office, but I have a husband who will insist I pay because he doesn't like a fight.

My husband was like that too! Thought that because a fake PCN looks like a real ticket (at first glance) and the firm have some signs up and are allowed in car parks by large Supermarkets, that it must be a legit fine...

That was 4 years ago and he soon saw the light when I showed him the Watchdog video and the example pictures of the letter chains. Then the letters arrived, exactly as predicted and I laughed at them (he went a bit pale because he is one to tend to believe what he reads a bit too much!).

But anyway nothing happened and of course the scam fizzled out.

A month ago I got another fake PCN and laughed again - my OH knows the score now as well. Just waiting to play snap with the letters again now.

And in both cases these were retail car parks that I still use about once a week, all the time. There is no reason not to park there and nothing to fear about collecting more fake PCNs now you know it's a scam.

And as for people finding 'old threads', we always find that comment surprising seeing as the current threads are updated by about a page and a half every single day! Current threads:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163

Not sure how you managed to read old threads, read the new ones. Especially that one second to the top, called 'PPC Letter Chains'.

note_2

does this mean that if i park in a lidl near town (which is usually almost empty and is free parking for customers) when i go shopping, i can use it as a free car park? i noticed they have a sign saying you'll be fined if you arent a customer?

Coupon-mad

note wrote: »

does this mean that if i park in a lidl near town (which is usually almost empty and is free parking for customers) when i go shopping, i can use it as a free car park? i noticed they have a sign saying you'll be fined if you arent a customer?

Technically yes, you can indeed, but I would also give the shop some business.

That's what I do when I use a Supermarket car park for a couple of hours shopping, wander to other shops but at least buy some items from the retailer with the car park, which is only fair. If you want to go unnoticed then go into the Lidl store first, then later wander to other shops, so the PPC employee in his hi-vis vest doesn't think 'oh look he's going off-site so I will issue one of my fake tickets as I know which car he got out of'.

Ignore any fake PCN you get. I have had 2 on my windscreen for similar situations to what you are describing, I laughed at them both and ignored them and the letters that followed.

Just to add, on this forum we do not condone selfish parking (so no leaving the car there all day, nor using and abusing the place as a free car park, day in day out, for work or anything). And certainly never think that you shouldn't pay a reasonable small P&D cost to park in a non-free car park. To do that would be to perpetuate the lie that PPCs use to wheedle their way in 'you have a parking problem, Mr Aldi Manager, we can sort that out for free, guv...'.

So, please don't be the cause of any real parking problem but yes, do your shopping in and around the store while parked, particularly as you say, if the car park is never full. They should be glad of the business you bring, to be honest.

And you must have noticed wrong. I doubt the signs say the word 'fine'. They will say 'parking charge notice' surely = fake PCN.