The Zero Hour Contract

ash28

CLAPTON wrote: »

the point is there are a wide variety of workpatterns and contracts

here you have given an example of a very severe restriction on the worker... he/she will only be accepted for being employed as a retained firefighter if their other employment agrees to allow then to leave on demand.

if the other employment doesn't agree then the worker can't work for one or the other ...

yes it is different from the supermarket employee who must be available at a drop of a hat but it's not that different; only a matter of degree.

personally, if I knew a local store were using the system originally described then I would boycott them; but that's a long way from forbidding it.

Most of our local employers seem quite happy to have retained firemen working for them - I guess in areas where this type of firestation operates you never know when you might need them. And they can get to you quite quickly unlike a full time firestation.

If you have an employer who isn't happy to have a retained firefighter then the firefighter is able to change his "on call" times. They aren't on call 24/7. Some choose evenings only, some weekends only, some during the day etc.

And unlike some of the zero hours contracts mentioned on here, retained firefighters are allowed to have other employment.

The other big difference is that a retained firefighter belongs to the firebrigade pension scheme.

sabretoothtigger

Thrugelmir wrote: »

In China 7 to 8 million people are joining the labour market every year. So China's communist rulers have a major problem on their hands themselves.

Population is less of a problem then previously, for the jobs market they need the new cheap workers to replace the old ones retiring or moving into better paid jobs.

The problem that China then has is a declining youth population relative to their older generation, the wages are rising and will continue because they no longer have excessive amounts of youth workers to be paid $1 a day

Vietnam has cheaper workers, probably India too. China must do similar to us, develop industry to justify higher wages.
The middle graph here is relevant, the trend is greater demand for labour as their population growth overall is negative this makes sense




Im not in favour of exploitation but if there is 8 or 10% unemployment, it requires less burden on companies not more. Flexibility, just in time, online instant order and so on is a drive towards efficency and that requires more smarts less brawn, less manpower per product unit sold if you want cheap goods.
I'd rather they used British workers, we cant lean on China to do the dirty work as a solution. At some point that position will slip and we'll be left to stand on our own two feet

Thrugelmir

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

Population is less of a problem then previously, for the jobs market they need the new cheap workers to replace the old ones retiring or moving into better paid jobs.

The problem that China then has is a declining youth population relative to their older generation, the wages are rising and will continue because they no longer have excessive amounts of youth workers to be paid $1 a day

China is still experiencing a transfer of the labour force from rural to urban areas. As people seek a higher standard of living. This where the requirement for new jobs is being driven from.

sabretoothtigger

The country also has to feed itself through some means though. Lost labour in rural areas means a higher cost for the workers food I presume.
Either they employ more technology or import food, generally they will require more money in exchange for their labour

Japan for example imports drinking water, apparently they dont have enough available nationally. Its no problem because the nation has alot to exchange for that service.
Apparently the one big thing USA has and Asia does not is large empty sections of fine quality arable land to supply large amounts of food or feed for cattle

Thrugelmir

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

The country also has to feed itself through some means though. Lost labour in rural areas means a higher cost for the workers food I presume.

China is experiencing urbanisation in a very short space of time. To put the matter into perspective. More people have moved from rural areas to cities in the past 10 years. Than emigrated to the USA in 100 years. The change is socially significant and should not be under estimated.

If you've read English history the changes are similar to those during the Industrial Revolution. 21st Century farming in the UK is highly mechanised. So China is following the same path.

sabretoothtigger

Yea my thinking is the machines are not cheaper then the tiny amounts of rice agrarian workers would have received as their pay.
So the tractors are greatly improving work done, they are more efficient. It makes sense to mass produce if possible but this whole move does also mean higher wages for those jobs that replace standing in a rice paddy especially if working population drops also

Its the Luddite argument I think, its not clear at first but putting people out of badly organised work or improving it through technology does basically improve society's general standing, wages go up almost certainly.

The Luddites of now are the politics and backers of failed and ancient debt vehicles that have square wheels and hold people back. Yet they are afraid to stop them

The relevance to zero hour would be efficiency. People shouldnt have to be placed about like rag dolls but when we bare the weight of so much failure it seems wise to stay flexible as a counterweight

aliwali

I have a zero hours contract in local government. It is for seasonal type work and therefore can not be covered with a contracted hours post. I send my availability to work about a month in advance and then the work is distributed fairly across all zero hours employees. It works very well, and as far as I know we all do it because we love the job and generally are either retired, have other jobs or are stay at home mums.

I am also self employed and while I was setting my business up I was able to claim JSA, it was just reduced in any weeks that I worked. I also claim tax credits and they ask me to average my hours over a 10 week period.

The benefits for me are that it is wholly flexible (maybe I am lucky with who I work for) and I get holiday and sick pay included as a percentage of my pay each month.

I respect that this probably isn't the case for everone on a zero hours contract, but I just wanted to highlight that sometimes it can be the perfect answer to a little extra income.

Thanks for the interesting discussion.

mr.boyle.81

I am also currently on a zero hour contract with a cleaning company in the north west of england. At first it was great there was a lot of work and then suddenly there was hardly anything since mid November and keep promising that there will be more/plenty work the week after basically giving the employers false positive's I am struggling with bills and feeding my family of 4 etc ect and worrying about working tax . I heard a rumour that after 3 month with a company that people are entitled to a better contract is this true also is there any rights at all that people on this zero hour contract are entitled to? i also keep thinking that i would be much better of on benefits than on this contract.I have tried to find another job but there really isn't much out there :(:(

N1AK

For a moment there I wasn't sure you'd spotted that another inappropriate opportunity for you to express your disregard for eastern Europeans had appeared; but don't worry I'm sure what someone coming along to discuss zero hour contracts and how they are making them hard really needed to cheer them up was an unrelated rant from you.

Sorry to hear about your situation mr.boyle.81. If they are using zero hour contracts as a way to avoid you being an 'employee' and doing it correctly then you won't accrue any extra employment rights due to period of work. Things get a little more complicated if they, for example, don't allow you to reject work offered or discriminate based on that; though unless your willing to get legal advice I'd let it go.

It's a rubbish situation but the best I can suggest is that you work out how much you're typically making via zero hour work and any benefits you are entitled to vs how much you'd make if you dropped the zero hour work. If they won't then offer you consistently enough work to be better off working then I'd seriously consider rejecting all work from them and looking for something better while claiming JSA.

mr.boyle.81

N1AK wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your situation mr.boyle.81. If they are using zero hour contracts as a way to avoid you being an 'employee' and doing it correctly then you won't accrue any extra employment rights due to period of work. Things get a little more complicated if they, for example, don't allow you to reject work offered or discriminate based on that; though unless your willing to get legal advice I'd let it go.

It's a rubbish situation but the best I can suggest is that you work out how much you're typically making via zero hour work and any benefits you are entitled to vs how much you'd make if you dropped the zero hour work. If they won't then offer you consistently enough work to be better off working then I'd seriously consider rejecting all work from them and looking for something better while claiming JSA.

thank you for your post it is appreciated