The Zero Hour Contract

kabayiri

To clarify who uses 0 hour..

On Radio 5, they indicated it was basically 2 sectors, and it's interesting to contrast them :

a) the NHS - using 0 hour to retain people with suitable skills, and people who like the flexibility this sort of working relationship gives them

b) services & tourism - bar staff and the like. Basically this is not a choice based decision, more like 'I need the work and I will accept the terms'.

One girl phoned in and said she would lose benefits if she took on 0 hour work. The response from IDS was interesting; he said the new Universal Credit Benefit would address this, as it was more flexible. It suggests that the conditions may be created for 0 hours to rise ..

StevieJ

Back to the future, didn't they do this sort of thing on the docks (and I guess other places), have people queuing up every morning for a days work? I should imagine it works OK for the retired looking for some holiday money.

StevieJ

CLAPTON wrote: »

anecdotal stories always prove the rule.

one can consider that this totally immoral practice applies to all self employed people;
as I understand it people like self employed plumbers, electrician, decorators, IT consultants only get paid when they work.
It appears that there are no laws to force customers to employ there services and so sometimes they sit around with nothing to do and don't get paid.

For the record I don't thing it's fair do you?

Self employed people have control over bringing in work, the same as a business, employees presumably have no control at all

kabayiri

StevieJ wrote: »

Back to the future, didn't they do this sort of thing on the docks (and I guess other places), have people queuing up every morning for a days work? I should imagine it works OK for the retired looking for some holiday money.

The future is probably an iRobot variation. Robots will make your hotel bed; burn your morning toast; serve you drinks in the empty hotel bar; sweep the roads; dig up turnips; and all those other mundane jobs.

It's just a matter of time.

Humans....overrated

CLAPTON

StevieJ wrote: »

Self employed people have control over bringing in work, the same as a business, employees presumably have no control at all

of course there are differences but many self employed people are self employed through lack of alternative employment or are self employed in name only.
the point is that in many situations, the over effect is pretty similar.

StevieJ

kabayiri wrote: »

The future is probably an iRobot variation. Robots will make your hotel bed; burn your morning toast; serve you drinks in the empty hotel bar; sweep the roads; dig up turnips; and all those other mundane jobs.

It's just a matter of time.

Humans....overrated

I think that has been the cry for over 60 years

Graham_Devon

CLAPTON wrote: »

of course there are differences but many self employed people are self employed through lack of alternative employment or are self employed in name only.
the point is that in many situations, the over effect is pretty similar.

I can see what you are trying to say here, but if I may, your analogy appears to be in the same vein as suggesting the person who owns a car is at no advantage over the person who can only use the bus, both wanting to go to the same place....they both end up in the same place regardless of method.

The person on the bus will be restricted to the bus route. The car driver will not be restricted to a certain route and can then carry out extra journies to places the bus can't reach.

Same as self employed vs zero hour contracts. The employee on the zero hour contract is stuck with the route the company wish to go down. The self employed person literally has the world as their oyster.

Not that I'm saying it's fun being self employed....it isn't.....but it's gonna be 100x better than waiting at home to see if you are called in to the factory line so you can buy another £20 of electric a the local paypoint.

The text message got me too. Said "this is all we can be bothered to do for you, as you are the lowest of the low....our automated system says no...wait until tommorow".

ash28

kabayiri wrote: »

To clarify who uses 0 hour..

On Radio 5, they indicated it was basically 2 sectors, and it's interesting to contrast them :

a) the NHS - using 0 hour to retain people with suitable skills, and people who like the flexibility this sort of working relationship gives them

b) services & tourism - bar staff and the like. Basically this is not a choice based decision, more like 'I need the work and I will accept the terms'.

One girl phoned in and said she would lose benefits if she took on 0 hour work. The response from IDS was interesting; he said the new Universal Credit Benefit would address this, as it was more flexible. It suggests that the conditions may be created for 0 hours to rise ..

Seems to be retail/restaurants/some call centres and as you say some NHS and council/social services/higher education

The problem at the bottom end of the zero hours contracts is that you are classed as employed so if you have no work for one week or two or more and no wages you can't claim JSA because you aren't available for work. (You have a job) And if you leave your zero hours contract you have intentionally become unemployed - and you wouldn't get JSA for 6 months anyway.

Also no wages, no NI paid, and no JSA = no NI covered - could impact future benefit/pension entitlement.

I know several people who work for a national company - the work could be classed as seasonal, they have very busy periods several times a year - the "flexible workers" don't know until the day before - sometimes on the day what hours, if any, they will be required to work. They get a text message to let them know. No text message = no work. Sometimes they get 2 hours a week other weeks up to 25 hours (never any more than 25 hours), they can get there and be sent home, then they are out of pocket unless they are within walking or cycling distance. Sweet for the employer.

They certainly can't pick and choose their hours.

I first heard of it around 10 years ago - but it is becoming more popular with employers and why wouldn't it - it's pretty cheap for them - it means, usually for unskilled workers, they have a waiting pool of people.

CLAPTON

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I can see what you are trying to say here, but if I may, your analogy appears to be in the same vein as suggesting the person who owns a car is at no advantage over the person who can only use the bus, both wanting to go to the same place....they both end up in the same place regardless of method.

The person on the bus will be restricted to the bus route. The car driver will not be restricted to a certain route and can then carry out extra journies to places the bus can't reach.

Same as self employed vs zero hour contracts. The employee on the zero hour contract is stuck with the route the company wish to go down. The self employed person literally has the world as their oyster.

Not that I'm saying it's fun being self employed....it isn't.....but it's gonna be 100x better than waiting at home to see if you are called in to the factory line so you can buy another £20 of electric a the local paypoint.

The text message got me too. Said "this is all we can be bothered to do for you, as you are the lowest of the low....our automated system says no...wait until tommorow".

there is a brief interview with a 'self employed' person on TV; she says she is only SE because she has to be and only earns a modest amount of money from it and would clearly like a 'proper' job.

I'm not sure she sees her situation a 100x better than the zero hours person.

Graham_Devon

CLAPTON wrote: »

there is a brief interview with a 'self employed' person on TV; she says she is only SE because she has to be and only earns a modest amount of money from it and would clearly like a 'proper' job.

I'm not sure she sees her situation a 100x better than the zero hours person.

I saw the interview....BBC News.

I'm not going to disagree there are people who are self employed through lack of choice. It would be silly for me to do so.

However, to compare the self employed as a whole to the people on zero hour contracts as a whole is silly too. They are quite obviously worlds apart in how they work and how the person may or may not benefit.

The local news for instance had a piece of tourism, zero hour contracts and part time jobs. Business leaders were suggesting it's good for us, as the flexibility means we can spend more time with our families. They suggested they wouldn't have a job at all if it wasn't for the generous flexibility of the business's. One councellor stood up and suggested it's flexibility for the business, not for the employee, and it's all gone too far with people unable to make ends meet and many many more turning to benefits.

To my mind (dependant on sector, I am talking tourism, entertainment, restaurants etc) it's simply preying on people in need of money. There is no way at all this benefits people in these sectors.