Deposit on wedding - help needed!

Optimist

arcon5 wrote: »

That's not right.

There are no grounds for op to be rescinding from the contract, op doesn't have a statutory right to cancel the booking therefore the only way tO get out of it is by breaching the contract.

Op has been presented with terms and may well be deemed to have acted in a way which could be deemed to have accepted them by not cancelling up on being presented with them.

Even in the absence of terms, the head terms are explicit (date, price etc) and anything else would be whatever is implied by law (Sales of Goods and Services Act) and any disputes would be dealt with based on what is seen as 'reasonable' - for which it is NOT reasonable to expect the company to suffer losses as a result of the breach, but IS reasonable for the party responsible for the breach to reimburse the affected party.

You cant breach something that doesn't exist and there was no contract term agreed that allows the hotel to retain the deposit.

Even if it were incorporated in the contract and agreed, given there is still a year away from the event its a good bet that a 100% loss of deposit would be classed as unfair.

The OP needs to be writing to the hotel asking for the return of the deposit on the basis of the above and if they refuse starting a small claims action against them. I find it highly likely they would win such a action.

arcon5

Optimist wrote: »

You cant breach something that doesn't exist and there was no contract term agreed that allows the hotel to retain the deposit.

Even if it were incorporated in the contract and agreed, given there is still a year away from the event its a good bet that a 100% loss of deposit would be classed as unfair.

The OP needs to be writing to the hotel asking for the return of the deposit on the basis of the above and if they refuse starting a small claims action against them. I find it highly likely they would win such a action.

What doesn't exist? Wouldn't be difficult for the company to proof a contractual relationship DOES exist.

I'm not condoning they detain 100% off the deposit, but op will have to (rightfully) the fact 100% off it will not be refunded.

You seem to be basing your opinion on the fact op hasn't agreed to this term... yet neglect the fact op has to right to cancel so if op is cancelling the contract then on what grounds is this being done? By what is known as 'anticipatory breach of contract' , which carries some costs. It would not be for example unreasonable for an admin fee to be charged to cover their time.

System

Usually by now someone starts going on about penalty clauses and claims none refundable deposits are illegal. I miss flyboy:-(

Optimist

arcon5 wrote: »

What doesn't exist? Wouldn't be difficult for the company to proof a contractual relationship DOES exist.

I'm not condoning they detain 100% off the deposit, but op will have to (rightfully) the fact 100% off it will not be refunded.

You seem to be basing your opinion on the fact op hasn't agreed to this term... yet neglect the fact op has to right to cancel so if op is cancelling the contract then on what grounds is this being done? By what is known as 'anticipatory breach of contract' , which carries some costs. It would not be for example unreasonable for an admin fee to be charged to cover their time.

We are not talking about an "admin fee" we are talking £750 and whist that that might be a admin fee for a barrister specialising in commercial contract law it isn't for a hotel dealing with a consumer

It really quite simple unless the hotel can prove that the OP was aware there was such a term incorporated in the contract then they appear to have no legal right to enforce such a term.

If this goes to small claims and the hotel argue anticipatory breach I fear the judge will give them short shrift.

This is all about Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts in that the terms were not negotiated. The burden of proof lies with the hotel and as there are no agreed terms they are going to find such a thing difficult to prove

I fear we are going to have to agree to disagree and see what happens in the small claims if the hotel are foolish enough to let it go that far

Hintza

It would sill be much simpler if people stood by their word. OP booked hotel and now wishes to cancel with no penalty. OP needs to negotiate with the hotel.

bris

Optimist wrote: »

We are not talking about an "admin fee" we are talking £750 and whist that that might be a admin fee for a barrister specialising in commercial contract law it isn't for a hotel dealing with a consumer

It really quite simple unless the hotel can prove that the OP was aware there was such a term incorporated in the contract then they appear to have no legal right to enforce such a term.

If this goes to small claims and the hotel argue anticipatory breach I fear the judge will give them short shrift.

This is all about Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts in that the terms were not negotiated. The burden of proof lies with the hotel and as there are no agreed terms they are going to find such a thing difficult to prove

I fear we are going to have to agree to disagree and see what happens in the small claims if the hotel are foolish enough to let it go that far

Contracts don't need to be written, this contract was formed when the OP went to the hotel and said, can I have this date please. This is a verbal contract. Now the clincher is the fact they paid a £750 deposit, this is the concrete proof, and is undisputable, so Optimist learn about how contracts are formed before you try and give the OP false hope. They are well within their rights to keep the deposit if they can not mitigate their losses.

Optimist

bris wrote: »

Contracts don't need to be written, this contract was formed when the OP went to the hotel and said, can I have this date please. This is a verbal contract. Now the clincher is the fact they paid a £750 deposit, this is the concrete proof, and is undisputable, so Optimist learn about how contracts are formed before you try and give the OP false hope. They are well within their rights to keep the deposit if they can not mitigate their losses.

Good grief, read what I said earlier it was a contract without agreed terms.

somethingcorporate

I agree that it is still "anticipatory breach" of that contract though. Which entitles the hotel to the damages of actual losses (which they need to mitigate).

It doesn't need to include terms about what that should look like.

ACDC1978

Thanks for all your replies! Have got in touch with the hotel to see if they would move my date and retain the deposit, keeps us both happy - they still have a date, we still have a date and they still have time to re-sell the original date... just hope they go for it! Wish me luck!!!

somethingcorporate

bris wrote: »

Contracts don't need to be written, this contract was formed when the OP went to the hotel and said, can I have this date please. This is a verbal contract. Now the clincher is the fact they paid a £750 deposit, this is the concrete proof, and is undisputable, so Optimist learn about how contracts are formed before you try and give the OP false hope. They are well within their rights to keep the deposit if they can not mitigate their losses.

I have bolded the bit here that is incorrect. They cannot arbitrarily keep the deposit if they cannot mitigate their loss. They can only retain what they lose as a result and this is not necessarily the deposit. I would argue (and I think a court would agree) that £750 is an arbitrary amount (% of total cost etc) and not reflect actual losses that the venue would lose if they cannot re-sell that date (it could be higher, it could be lower).