to spay or not to spay?

thorsoak

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

What are the dangers of a dog getting pregnant on her first season? In other words, if one of the dogs that will inevitably be trying to get to her succeeds, how much (if any) additional risk is there in pregnancy to her and pups? Even assuming that a roughly equal sized dog gets to her and not something much bigger?

After all, with humans, we may be able to get pregnant at the age of 12, but it's a very high risk pregnancy as a result, due to not being fully grown.

Yes, it would be possible for a female puppy to become pregnant on her first season :eek: - and in addition to the risks that you mention, she would not have had any of the requisite (for most breeds) health tests which are generally carried out after 12 months of age.

Bromley86

Originally Posted by Shepherd1
what vet advises to spay at 6 months old

Loads of them. Seriously. Not saying they're right (IANAVet, remember), but they do.

First result from a Google search:

"Spaying females before 6 months is less controversial than neutering [a male dog]; preventing the first heat nearly eliminates the risk of breast cancer which is much more common than bone cancer."
http://www.cesarsway.com/askthevet/basicadvice/best-age-to-neuter-or-spay
(Try not to focus on the fact it's from Cesar's site as that's immaterial to this point.)

EDIT: Just to put some rough figures to this, up to 20% of spayed b1tches may experience incontinence (not certain if that has the normal incontinence stripped out, but I'd assume it does).

3.5% of intact females will develop mammary cancer (50% malignant). This reduces to 0.3% if you've spayed after one season and effectively zero if you spay before.

Wiki didn't have any figures for pyometra or uterine/ovarian cancer, nor for the negatives other than incontinence.

Originally Posted by thorsoak
would you advocate that a teenage girl has a hysterectomy?

Interesting point. Perhaps one closer to this situation would be "Would you advocate that a teenage Down Syndrome girl has a hysterectomy?" I've never looked into it before, so I don't know the balance of the arguments, but a brief search shows that it does happen, perhaps regularly.

Shepherd1

Bromley86 wrote: »

Loads of them. Seriously. Not saying they're right (IANAVet, remember), but they do.

First result from a Google search:

"Spaying females before 6 months is less controversial than neutering [a male dog]; preventing the first heat nearly eliminates the risk of breast cancer which is much more common than bone cancer."
http://www.cesarsway.com/askthevet/basicadvice/best-age-to-neuter-or-spay
(Try not to focus on the fact it's from Cesar's site as that's immaterial to this point.)

EDIT: Just to put some rough figures to this, up to 20% of spayed b1tches may experience incontinence (not certain if that has the normal incontinence stripped out, but I'd assume it does).

3.5% of intact females will develop mammary cancer (50% malignant). This reduces to 0.3% if you've spayed after one season and effectively zero if you spay before.

Wiki didn't have any figures for pyometra or uterine/ovarian cancer, nor for the negatives other than incontinence.


Interesting point. Perhaps one closer to this situation would be "Would you advocate that a teenage Down Syndrome girl has a hysterectomy?" I've never looked into it before, so I don't know the balance of the arguments, but a brief search shows that it does happen, perhaps regularly.

As I said I really believed spaying was the best thing to do, but not anymore.

I cannot watch another dog go through what mine did, its not just the incontinence which in itself made her miserable but the monthly trips to the vet (serious stress for a dog who doesn't like going) and the side effects from the propalin.

Bromley86

But that's an emotive response based entirely on the fact that you've not lost an animal to, say, pyometra. The odds of your current intact girl of becoming incontinent if spayed or getting pyometra if not appear to be in the same ballpark.

I drilled down into the figures used in Wiki and a bunch came from this report:
http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/pdf/10.2460/javma.231.11.1665

Format below is:
Condition (substantial morbidity?)
Figures

Benefits
Mammary gland neoplasms (yes)
3.4% in all dogs; 0.5% if spayed after first season, 0% if spayed before.
Ovarian or uterine tumors (no)
Low
Pyometra (yes)
15.2% by 4 years of age; 23% to 24% by 10 years of age. Zero if spayed.


Detriments
Complications of surgery (no)
6.1%
Aggression (potentially)
Variable
TCC (no)
1% (cancer)
Osteosarcoma (yes)
0.2% (cancer)
Hemangiosarcoma (yes)
0.2% (cancer)
Cruciate rupture (yes)
1.8%
Obesity (no)
2.8%
Diabetes mellitus (no)
0.5%
Urinary incontinence (no)
4.9%–20.0%; increased when spayed at < 3 months of age