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HMO in Scotland
Mojisola
Posts: 35,571 Forumite
I'm getting confused reading up on this as some of the stuff seems contradictory. Can anyone help?
Three people have been renting a three bedroomed house. The LL has just told them that he doesn't have a licence for multiple occupancy and, as the council is tightening up, he's getting worried.
He has suggested that two of the tenants share the tenancy so the house legally only has two tenants and that the other one just carries on living there. Apart from any repercussions on the LL if the council realise the situation, there are two big issues for the tenants that I can see - only the two who have signed are legally responsible for the bills and could be left to pay them if the third walks away, and the third one has no protection and could be asked to leave at very short notice which could create problems for him.
I've been reading up on what counts as a tenant/household. At the moment none of the tenants are related to each other and so count as three households. If one of the tenants left and a sibling of one of those remaining moved in, would those two count as one household and remove the need for an HMO licence?
Three people have been renting a three bedroomed house. The LL has just told them that he doesn't have a licence for multiple occupancy and, as the council is tightening up, he's getting worried.
He has suggested that two of the tenants share the tenancy so the house legally only has two tenants and that the other one just carries on living there. Apart from any repercussions on the LL if the council realise the situation, there are two big issues for the tenants that I can see - only the two who have signed are legally responsible for the bills and could be left to pay them if the third walks away, and the third one has no protection and could be asked to leave at very short notice which could create problems for him.
I've been reading up on what counts as a tenant/household. At the moment none of the tenants are related to each other and so count as three households. If one of the tenants left and a sibling of one of those remaining moved in, would those two count as one household and remove the need for an HMO licence?
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Comments
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Are you the LL or one of the Ts?
It's a criminal offence for any LL to operate an HMO without a licence, and there are fines of up to £50,000 for those who fail to comply with the law. If the local Council Officers suspect that a property is being run as an unlicensed HMO, be aware that they can come and inspect the property without giving any prior warning.
Is there anything else that the LL in question is failing to deal with properly?
Gas safety? Registering as a LL? Property complying with the Repairing Standard? Declaring rental income to HMRC?0 -
If one of the tenants left and a sibling of one of those remaining moved in, would those two count as one household and remove the need for an HMO licence?
Correct.
In Scotland, the definition for HMO is effectively "three or more unrelated people" living together.
Two siblings (or other relatives) and a friend does not require an HMO license.
A couple (whether married, civil partners, or in a live-in relationship) would also be able to have a friend live with them.
However three (or more) friends living together would require a house with an HMO license.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
Are you the LL or one of the Ts?
It's a criminal offence for any LL to operate an HMO without a licence, and there are fines of up to £50,000 for those who fail to comply with the law. If the local Council Officers suspect that a property is being run as an unlicensed HMO, be aware that they can come and inspect the property without giving any prior warning.
Is there anything else that the LL in question is failing to deal with properly?
Gas safety? Registering as a LL? Property complying with the Repairing Standard? Declaring rental income to HMRC?
A relative is one of the tenants.
The LL seems to be okay with all the safety stuff. No idea about his taxes, etc.0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Correct.
In Scotland, the definition for HMO is effectively "three or more unrelated people" living together.
Two siblings (or other relatives) and a friend does not require an HMO license.
Thanks for confirming that.0 -
It's a criminal offence for any LL to operate an HMO without a licence, and there are fines of up to £50,000 for those who fail to comply with the law.
Correct.
However there is no penalty for tenants taking on an extra flatmate without the knowledge of the landlord, and the landlord would not be liable if their lease prohibited such activity and he had no knowledge they had done so.If the local Council Officers suspect that a property is being run as an unlicensed HMO, be aware that they can come and inspect the property without giving any prior warning.
Also correct.
However as a landlord or tenant in a private property that is not licensed as an HMO you have no legal obligation to let any council staff enter the property for an inspection.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »However there is no penalty for tenants taking on an extra flatmate without the knowledge of the landlord, and the landlord would not be liable if their lease prohibited such activity and he had no knowledge they had done so.
In this case, the three tenants had contracts with the LL.
So now, if one of the current tenants left and a sibling of one of the remainders took his place, the tenancy will be legal.0 -
Thanks for confirming that.
No problem.
There's a general consensus amongst landlords and tenants in Scotland that the HMO net was drawn too tight with the "3 or more" definition, and that it should have been "more than 3" instead.
In practical terms it makes no difference to neighbours, the council, the tenants, or anyone else if a 3 bedroom flat is occupied by 2 cousins and a friend, a brother and sister and a friend, a couple and a friend, or three friends.
Yet three of those four scenarios requires a few thousands pounds of work to the house and a red tape jungle to navigate for a license, and the other does not.
Madness really....
Which is why so few 3 bedroom places have an HMO license, and those that do tend to rent for more than those that don't.
The reality is that for 3 bedders anyway, most tenants ignore the requirement, and most landlords don't get too aggressive about looking for it.
It's obviously a different scenario entirely if you have a 5 bed or 7 bed house full of 7 unrelated students, who may all bring home a girlfriend/boyfriend or have mates over at the weekend. Under that scenario, you could easily enough have 10 or even 15 people sleeping in a house at times. Obviously under those circumstances there are good reasons for preventing such a house in some areas, and it just makes sense for landlords to have to install commercial grade fire alarms, smoke detection, push bar exits, etc, if a license for that is to be granted.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
In this case, the three tenants had contracts with the LL.
So now, if one of the current tenants left and a sibling of one of the remainders took his place, the tenancy will be legal.
Yes, that's absolutely correct.
If a sibling or other family member, or even a partner in a relationship, took their place that would be legal.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
...which is not the case described by the OPHAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Correct.
However there is no penalty for tenants taking on an extra flatmate without the knowledge of the landlord, and the landlord would not be liable if their lease prohibited such activity and he had no knowledge they had done so.Three people have been renting a three bedroomed house. The LL has just told them that he doesn't have a licence for multiple occupancy and, as the council is tightening up, he's getting worried.He has suggested that two of the tenants share the tenancy so the house legally only has two tenants and that the other one just carries on living there.0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »In practical terms it makes no difference to neighbours, the council, the tenants, or anyone else if a 3 bedroom flat is occupied by 2 cousins and a friend, a brother and sister and a friend, a couple and a friend, or three friends.
Yet three of those four scenarios requires a few thousands pounds of work to the house and a red tape jungle to navigate for a license, and the other does not.
Madness really....
Which is why so few 3 bedroom places have an HMO license, and those that do tend to rent for more than those that don't.
The tenancy was taken on in a hurry and he didn't think of asking about HMO because he was replacing a previous tenant who had been there some years. He assumed that everything was above board, especially as they filled in forms for the council about council tax. It seems as if the council doesn't have a joined-up system throughout their different departments.
It would make life much easier if he could stay so it's good to know that a sibling could be the third renter and they could stay legal.
I didn't like either of the LL's suggestions and was going to advise him to find somewhere else.0
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