Wills and beneficiaries

2003wastheyear

Hi there.

Grandmother has passed away.
Her will only states to split house/monies between two sons... Nothing more, nothing less.I am power of attorney.
uncle) has not told us anything about the will, final burial (have had funeral, waiting to hear about laying of ashes) or anything.


Dad and I are worried that she will never see any money.
I cant see the wood for the trees.


I know I should see a solicitor but am worried about the cost and wondered if anytone else has had similar experiences. Thanks

scotsbob

You have a copy of the will so you need to look to see who is named as executor, that is the person responsible for ensuring the wishes in the will are carried out.
Not sure what you mean by "final burial" but who organised the funeral etc?
The answer to your second question depends on the contents of your mother's will, assuming she has written one. If she hasn't then the laws of intestacy would apply.

2003wastheyear

Hi scots bob I have updated.
Aunt is sole executor, she organised funeral. we are awaiting info on laying of ashes (or whatever its called).
Like i said the will just says- everything to be spilt between daughters.

dzug1

I fear you may be being a bit impatient - collecting in the assets of an estate can take time, and if a solicitor were handling it it's unlikely that anything would be paid out until 6 months from probate. A private executor can cut a few corners but they still shouldn't rush things.

Probate doesn't mean the estate is ready to distribute - it means that the executor can start collecting in assets. Some institutions can be slow to pay up.

troubleinparadise

Dear 2003WTY,

I'm a co-executor for my late mother's estate. The process has been slow due to the amount of paperwork involved with lots of different institutions, and even after getting Probate some in particular were very slow, eg Santander.

We have paid out to one beneficiary whose bequest was very straightforward. However, the final three are to receive the "residue" of the estate - that is a split of the final pot.

In order to get to the "final pot", we've still got to do another tax return - so more paperwork and more time.

However, I do believe in transparency. We will be preparing estate accounts to be given to the beneficiaries, as we are required to do, which will detail all the monies in, all the monies out, and give a clear picture. This should be adequate proof as to what has happened, but as executors we are required to keep all the paperwork (every bill, every credit note, every letter) which would show how we arrived at the final figures on the accounts.

So to give your aunt the benefit of the doubt, she may well be waiting on monies to be paid into the estate (and the house sold?) before she can distribute them. But you can ask her how things are going, and it really shouldn't be a problem for her to explain things to you (or your mum - I know you are her carer and you siblings have POA, but does her disability prevent her from understanding the money side of things?) If your aunt refuses to discuss things with you or your mum, then perhaps alarm bells might ring.

And it does take a little while for the ashes to be ready for burial/dispersal after a cremation, so that might be the hold up. Has your own mum not been involved in any of the funeral arrangements?

And another thought - your aunt has just lost her mum, and may be very sad and exhausted after what has been a difficult time for her, and now dealing with the paperwork. Don't underestimate how stressful and tiring that is too.

I quite understand that you have your mum's welfare to consider. Would it be possible to sit down with your aunt and talk all this through so that you understand all the facts as they are? Money and families are a minefield at times.

Good luck.

antrobus

2003wastheyear wrote: »

...

1. How do we get my mother's share?

In the due course of time. It can easily take 6 months to a year to deal with an estate. Particularly if there is a house involved that has to be sold.

2003wastheyear wrote: »

...2. If my aunt drags this out by constantly ignoring us and my darling mother passes away before she gets her share, will my aunt automatically get 100% of the will? Or does it go to grandchildren by default?

If your mother were now to die, then her share of your grandmother's estate would be an asset in her estate, and would pass to her heirs in accordance with her will. Or pass in accordance with the law on intestacy if there is no will. Your aunt would not in any circumstances get the 100%.

2003wastheyear

Hi Guys thanks for your advice. I am not being impatient. I know he house could take years to sell. I dont know if it is going to be sold or rented out- that is the issue. I know nothing! And yes we are all grieving! I helped care for my grandmother (along side caring for my mother) and since she died have been cut out 100% I havent been able to visit the house or get one photo etc etc. I do not underestimate the grieving process. There is NO solicitor involved.
I am just 100% in the dark so was just asking for anyone who had any advice. ta xxx

agrinnall

Your mother is entitled to 50% of the value of the estate, so the only ways the house could be rented out is if either she can be paid from the other assets of the estate or if your aunt pays money into the estate to allow your mother to get her share in cash.

You say no solicitor is involved, but there's no reason why you can't see a solicitor yourself and get them to write a letter to your aunt asking what is happening (although obviously it'll be cheaper if you do this yourself, and only involve the solicitor if you don't get a satisfactory answer).

getmore4less

Do you have any idea of the value of the house or other assets?

who was the other executor, did they renouce or reserve, you may need to talk to them.


If the aunt thinks she can get away with it she might just try and you have an obligation to protect your mothers interests so can act.

if renting or holding out for a high price is not in the best interest of both benifitiaries it may be an issue challenging without legal advise.

troubleinparadise

Hi Guys thanks for your advice. I am not being impatient. I know he house could take years to sell. I dont know if it is going to be sold or rented out- that is the issue. I know nothing! And yes we are all grieving! I helped care for my grandmother (along side caring for my mother) and since she died have been cut out 100% I havent been able to visit the house or get one photo etc etc. I do not underestimate the grieving process. There is NO solicitor involved.
I am just 100% in the dark so was just asking for anyone who had any advice. ta xxx

Please don't take responses as criticism - replying on here to the facts as presented sometimes means the situation isn't always clear, and I apologise if I upset you.

Sometimes when a house is left in a will, the need to meet the Inheritance Tax bill means that the house has to be sold to pay that before Probate can be granted, and thus it would not pass to the beneficiaries despite the instruction in the Will.

As Probate has been granted, that is obviously not the case here. Depending on the wording in the Will ie, "my house is to be sold and the proceeds divided....", or "I leave my house to my daughters XXX and XXX......" then that should give an indication what is to happen to the house. If the first, then your aunt could sell it acting as Executor, and divide out the proceeds to the beneficiaries. If, however, the second one, then your Mum and Aunt are the 'co-owners', and any decisions about what to do with the house have to be reached amicably between the two of them. In that case, your aunt cannot just sell it, or rent it out, or do nothing with it indefinitely without speaking to your mother.

The house can be sold and the proceeds divided between the two of them, but I think that will involve your mother (or you holding the POA if she doesn't have capacity) signing some legal paperwork, with or without the house being transferred to their names. Which again I don't believe the Aunt can do on her own. The house could be rented out, but with a proper contract and arrangement to divide the income. The house could be left empty. Whatever happens, there still needs to be an arrangement to do with insurance, utilities and maintenance, and of course the contents.

Has your Aunt refused to speak to your Mum or you? I appreciate she is away now. She isn't obliged as Executor to tell you in detail what is happening just now, but I can't see why she wouldn't as a family member and co-beneficiary. Although as you say, being shut out after caring for your grandmother suggests some sort of problem - was there one before she died?

You really do need legal advice here - you could start with the CAB, taking a copy of the Will, and see what they suggest. I do not know if whether your mum is eligible for legal aid; but the CAB could help clarifying that. Failing all that, a letter from a solicitor (which won't cost a fortune) could at least get your Aunt to talk about what is happening if she won't do so voluntarily.

For £4, you can check with the Land Registry about the title deeds to the house if it has been registered. Again, a bit more information for you - and it should still show as being in your grandmother's name. Any changes and you'll know something is up!

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/faqs/how-do-i-find-out-who-owns-a-property-or-piece-of-land

John_Pierpoint

You are lucky to have a copy of the will - who gave you that?
Has it been changed since?

You can call in regularly at your nearest probate office, to check on their on-line system to see if probate has been granted; alternatively you can leave a search request (it is about £10 I think) and in theory you will be informed as soon a probate is granted.

Your aunt might well appreciate your involvement in helping clear up things, as even if she employs a solicitor to fill in the forms, she still has most of the donkey work to do and only she can answer the questions and sign the forms.

It is a tough and lonely job to do and HMRC (if they are the first beneficiary for payment of IHT) allow 6 months after death and most estates refer to "the executor's year". [ie it takes 6 months to ferret out all the information and pay the tax man and then it takes another 6 months to get grant of probate, advertise for creditors, gather in all the assets, sell (?) the property and then distribute initially any specific bequests and then the residuary.]
Over 90% of estates are settled within 2 years (HMRC figures).

As soon as probate has been granted the executor is in a position to make partial payments if they want to.

However beneficiaries have almost no rights other than to be given a set of accounts when the final distribution is made. So remember that when talking to your aunt.

Obviously jaw jaw is better than war war (and solicitors charge well over £100 per hour)..

[With my 8 beneficiaries, I set up an email account for the deceased and put a monthly progress report on it plus any particularly interesting correspondence with the poorly trained bureaucracy involved - any beneficiary could log in and see how things were going ]