Panoramic Glass Roofs. Are they safe.

dld2s

bryanb wrote: »

Can you explain the picture in post 21 then?

I can't,maybe different manufacturers use different glass?

Here I think is the story of the poster and if you look down, you'll see a Kia spokesman says ‘The panoramic sunroofs fitted to all our vehicles are manufactured from tempered safety glass and this glass has been designed and developed to craze and shatter into small pieces if damaged.
‘This is accepted as a safer failure process than single large cracks and large jagged pieces of glass which can be very dangerous within the confines of a vehicle"

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-2552135/Our-Kia-Sportage-panoramic-sunroof-imploded-two-years-ownership.html


and to the american story

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/10/25/kia-sorento-sunroofs/3189505/

Tell you what, dont think I would buy a car with one if it can be damaged by hail, change in temperature etc.

Gloomendoom

dld2s wrote: »

and to the american story

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/10/25/kia-sorento-sunroofs/3189505/

Tell you what, dont think I would buy a car with one if it can be damaged by hail, change in temperature etc.

Like most things in the USA, their hailstones are bigger than ours...

Jamie_Carter

smcculloch wrote: »

Contrary to what has been said on his forum - panoramic roofs are not laminated like windscreens. They are designed to shatter.

Some panoramic roofs are laminated, some are toughened. In fact on some Mercedes cars the roof is in two sections, and one is laminated, the other tempered.


On most modern cars the windscreen the windscreen, and often the rear window are laminated, but the side windows are toughened (except on some higher end cars). The front and rear windows can provide up to 30% of the integral strength of the vehicle, and in the case of the windscreen it provides a huge amount of frontal impact protection.


There are pros and cons with both types of glass.


Toughened glass is very strong, as you will know if you have tried to break one with anything other than a sharp pointed object. And when toughened glass does break, then it shatters in to small crystals rather than large shards of glass. Although these crystals may shower the occupants of the vehicle, and are sharp, they are far safer than being showered with large shards.


Laminated glass is usually far stronger than toughened, but most importantly it will usually stay intact. So although the glass particles are much sharper, any that reach the occupants would be far smaller, and would usually be in the form of glass dust.

Richard53

dld2s wrote: »

Here I think is the story of the poster and if you look down, you'll see a Kia spokesman says ‘The panoramic sunroofs fitted to all our vehicles are manufactured from tempered safety glass and this glass has been designed and developed to craze and shatter into small pieces if damaged.
‘This is accepted as a safer failure process than single large cracks and large jagged pieces of glass which can be very dangerous within the confines of a vehicle"

Brilliant. Glass that breaks up into small pieces in an impact is better than glass that breaks into long shards. Well, durr. No-one suggested glazing the roof with offcuts from the greenhouse. Have they never heard of laminated glass?

If you read between the lines of the article quoted, you will see that Kia can't find evidence of faulty manufacture or materials, and therefore it isn't their fault. On the other hand, they warn owners about the risks to the roof glass from ice, cold weather, water ingress, speed bumps and potholes. So as long as you drive on smooth roads in warm, dry weather, you're fine. Great.

mathiasa74

I agree with smcculloch, my panoramic sunroof on my Passat Alltrack 2013 just imploded i week ago. Me and my kids gott covered in glas and well shocked by the explosion. I can't believe a company like VW deliver cars like that in 2013. I'm trying to get an answer from VW why they don't have laminated glas (like Volvo, Ford etc), for me it's just crazy.

anotherbaldrick

It was a few years back but I remember it well. Driving north up the A1, the driver of the car in front unlatched his tilt up sunroof. Next thing the sunroof took off like a helicopter rotor rose about 3ft above the car roof and came down just in front of me a big cloud of glass dust it just disintegrated. Presume their a speed limit above which you don't open those things.

Jamie_Carter

Richard53 wrote: »

Brilliant. Glass that breaks up into small pieces in an impact is better than glass that breaks into long shards. Well, durr. No-one suggested glazing the roof with offcuts from the greenhouse. Have they never heard of laminated glass?

If you read between the lines of the article quoted, you will see that Kia can't find evidence of faulty manufacture or materials, and therefore it isn't their fault. On the other hand, they warn owners about the risks to the roof glass from ice, cold weather, water ingress, speed bumps and potholes. So as long as you drive on smooth roads in warm, dry weather, you're fine. Great.

Laminated glass does break into sharp shards of glass, unlike tempered glass that breaks into smaller crystals, which cause far less serious injuries.

Jamie_Carter

anotherbaldrick wrote: »

It was a few years back but I remember it well. Driving north up the A1, the driver of the car in front unlatched his tilt up sunroof. Next thing the sunroof took off like a helicopter rotor rose about 3ft above the car roof and came down just in front of me a big cloud of glass dust it just disintegrated. Presume their a speed limit above which you don't open those things.

It's more likely that it wasn't secured properly.

Ralph-y

cutting people out of cars ............

both types of glass are found in cars and both have issues.

As previously stated the side windows are toughened, and we would try to collect the shattered glass in the door.

The screen is laminated, it can, but very rarely breaks into shards, it can be cut with a saw, and 99% of the time comes out in one piece.

Day in day out both types break in normal use....... side windows can shatter , screens can crack.

If you are so worried about glass then have a good look at your house and find out what type glass is where.

So IMHO the OP's question 'are panoramic roofs safe?' is yes within the bounds of normal every day life.

Are seat belts safe?
are air bags safe?

You are safer now in a newish car than you have ever been ............

Ralph:cool:

AdrianC

Richard53 wrote: »

Brilliant. Glass that breaks up into small pieces in an impact is better than glass that breaks into long shards. Well, durr. No-one suggested glazing the roof with offcuts from the greenhouse. Have they never heard of laminated glass?

Laminated glass is safe, as is toughened - but neither is 100% perfectly safe. Toughened will, as has been said, shatter into lots of small pieces, like gravel. BUT laminated has give in it. In a hard front-end crash, the head of an unbelted occupant can go through a laminated windscreen. The shoulders don't. Then they slump back, inside the car, pulling the windscreen back. The hole they've created then closes up on their neck, causing thoroughly horrible and usually fatal injuries. As you can imagine, in a heavy roll-over the same could easily happen with a laminated roof. In some crashes, a toughened glass roof could be safer by shattering than a laminated one. It'd also be easier for emergency services to get injured occupants out through.

But these are massively rare edge-cases. The odds of a panoramic roof being a safety issue are negligible - probably smaller than the risks from an opening sunroof.