Lloyds TSB Card Fraud - They Wont Help

lotsofstress

I have just found out I have lost my debit card and went onto my online banking to report it missing and noticed that my account had been cleared. I bank with Lloyds TSB. I last used my card on Wednesday evening (1st) and took £30 out.

There were two fraudulent transactions on seperate days, which appear to be from the same cash machine about 10 minutes drive from me.

So I phoned Lloyds TSB and they told me they can't do anything, because my PIN was used. The woman on the end of the phone told me that because my PIN was a random one set when I first got the card it would have been hard for a fraudster to guess it and despite the person who took my card entering it wrong the first time on the first transaction the woman was 'confused' as to how they got my PIN.

Another thing they told me was that it didn't match a fraudsters pattern. Apparently when somebody steals your card they then take it straight away to the nearest ATM and empty your account, then wait until the next day and empty it again, and over and over like that until you notice and cancel the card. The thing with the unauthorised transactions on my account is that the first one of £250 happened about 6 hours after (at 12.03 on Thursday morning) I last remembering having my card and the money was withdrawn from an ATM 10 mins away from me. The second transaction was at 3:01 this morning from the same ATM they used the first time, this time taking £220, which left me with £9 in the bank

After a slightly teary debate with the rather unhelpful lady on the end of the phone about how I couldn't explain when, where and how my card was taken and how the heck they got my PIN I was told in no uncertain terms it is now up to me to investigate. I have to ring the police to ask them if they can obtain CCTV from the ATM, for me to then look at and see if I know/recognise the person and if not, I have to ring the Fraud team back and tell them my findings, only for them to then investigate and even after all that I still might not get my money back because the fraudsters used my PIN.

My major problem is, from watching Watchdog, I thought it was the onus of the banks to prove I was negligent and to investigate. I haven't yet phoned the Police as I want to know if this is true before I spend a further 30 minutes or so on the phone, telling them what I've already told the bank.

I am annoyed at Lloyds, I have been a customer with them for about six years, they're always happy to try selling me upgraded accounts, but when it comes to investigating fraud on my account, they are everything but helpful.

What do I do? It's my Sons birthday in a few days and I wont be able to get him anything, let alone pay any bills.

weareyoung

What does the FSA say?

lotsofstress

This is from the FSA website. Clearly says they can only not make payment if they believe it is me being negligent or fraudulent and it must have evidence to back this up. Lloyds TSB's argument is that "the way the money was taken out doesn't follow normal fraudster patterns" as in they'd empty it straight away.

I am really upset and annoyed at Lloyds for this. They've deliberately not made this easy. I have a gas bill to pay, my Son's bday next week, rent to pay within 7 days and living costs to cover and I have no money. The big bank with all its money cannot help me, wont even offer me a temporary overdraft extension whilst it sorts things.

Your bank

[FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans][FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans]must refund an unauthorised transaction. Money can only be taken from your account if you have authorised the transaction or if your bank can prove you were at fault – see below. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans][FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans]
Contact your bank immediately if you notice an unauthorised payment from your account. If you are sure you did not authorise the payment, you can claim a refund.



Your bank

[FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans][FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans]may only refuse a refund for an unauthorised transaction if: [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans][FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans]

1. it can prove you authorised the transaction – though your bank cannot simply say that use of your password, card and PIN proves you authorised a payment; or
2. it can prove you are at fault because you acted fraudulently, or because you deliberately, or with gross negligence, failed to protect the details of your card, PIN or password in a way that allowed the transaction.

The bank

[FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans][FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans]must make the refund immediately unless it has evidence that one of the above reasons applies. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans][FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans]
Your bank may ask you to answer some questions and fill out a form confirming what has happened, but it cannot delay your refund while it waits for you to return the form. If the bank has evidence that one of the above reasons for refusing a refund applies, it may investigate before making a refund but must look into it as quickly as possible.

If your bank rejects your claim for a refund it should explain why.
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

pcombo

well you said the bank said pin was used.

FSA says.

1. it can prove you are at fault because you acted fraudulently, or because you deliberately, or with gross negligence, failed to protect the details of your card, PIN or password in a way that allowed the transaction.

pin was used so you cant use that to help you.

opinions4u

I would be having a word with family members and asking them straight: "who has used my card?".

How old is your son?

I also predict the missing card will mysteriously turn up somewhere in the home very soon.

lotsofstress

How can I not use that to help me? PIN was entered incorrectly on the first attempt, so I'm guessing it's somebody looked over my shoulder and either I dropped my card or they picked it out of my pocket. I have no idea though and the more I talk to Lloyds about it, the less likely I feel I'll ever see that money again.

They're investigating how somebody could have known the PIN now and it should take 7-10 working days. If I think about it, the introduction of chip and PIN could have been a clever ploy to shift responsibility onto the cardholder.

Banks aren't allowed to use the excuse "PIN was used so you're at fault" They must prove I have been negligent or fraudulent. I am concerned though, after reading stories of people never being refunded despite clear evidence they weren't at fault.

lotsofstress

opinions4u,

If my children were seen out at that time, they'd have been picked up by social services and put into care. They're too young.

Wasn't my Partner, either as he came out of hospital on the Wednesday afternoon with respiritory problems caused by an infection so even the most basic exercise was too much for him. At around the time the money was taken, he was lying awake watching Shameless.

Nobody else entered my property between the time I spent money on the card and the time money was taken in the early hours. I'd have considered people if there were people to consider.

opinions4u

lotsofstress wrote: »

opinions4u,

If my children were seen out at that time, they'd have been picked up by social services and put into care. They're too young.

Wasn't my Partner, either as he came out of hospital on the Wednesday afternoon with respiritory problems caused by an infection so even the most basic exercise was too much for him. At around the time the money was taken, he was lying awake watching Shameless.

Nobody else entered my property between the time I spent money on the card and the time money was taken in the early hours. I'd have considered people if there were people to consider.

Any others with access to your home? Friends, neighbours, medics, cleaner?

(apologies if my post above came across as blunt. But experience tells me the direction I'm hinting at is the most likely cause. That doesn't exclude other possibilities though)

davethorp

lotsofstress wrote: »

If my children were seen out at that time, they'd have been picked up by social services and put into care. They're too young

Trust me they wouldn't. Going way off topic now but the amount of times kids have been out playing past midnight around here is unbelievable and not one has been taken into care. We've also heard one parent shouting "where are you?" to their 4 year old daughter around that time and just thought to ourselves "don't you know?".

Anyway I digress

lotsofstress

opinions4u wrote: »

Any others with access to your home? Friends, neighbours, medics?

(apologies if my post above came across as blunt. But experience tells me the direction I'm hinting at is the most likely cause. That doesn't exclude other possibilities though)

No, no and no. Took out the £30, bought things from the shop, went to the chip shop, got some dinner, went home and sat watching the TV and doing some work. Always leave the door locked. Literally, nobody could have taken it from within my house.

lotsofstress

davethorp wrote: »

Trust me they wouldn't. Going way off topic now but the amount of times kids have been out playing past midnight around here is unbelievable and not one has been taken into care. We've also heard one parent shouting "where are you?" to their 4 year old daughter around that time and just thought to ourselves "don't you know?".

Anyway I digress

Lol. I know what you're saying.