Changing system capacity - FIT

jennifernil

Thanks. He would not be changing the present inverter as he has a 20 year manufacturer's warranty on it, so anything he added would be totally separate, though most likely on the same roof as the existing system.

His DNO is Scottish Power.

I cannot think of anything else in the renewables field that he could use the money on, so this may be his only option.

noncom_2

Update on the original post:

The company in question appear to be offering my parents the extra 2 panels free of charge. Can anyone think why they would do this? They are saying that they were ordered for an industrial unit and are surplus to requirements, but surely even then they could sell them to another customer?

Also, when my parents asked about reporting the change of system to their FIT payer (and also to the MCS or whoever registers the actual installation) they were told "most companies don't want to know about this".

I'm telling my parents to steer well clear of this extension. Can anyone shed any light on why the company might offer this?

Thanks

Martyn1981

Hiya noncom, I'm equally baffled. It's not just the panels, they'd also have to supply and fit extra brackets, rails and fixings! Maybe they are just really nice. The only other thing I can think of, and it's way, way out there, is that they've fitted lower rated panels than they said, and are now trying to make up the 'volume' before it's noticed - please don't take that too seriously, it's just that I was paid for years to analyse info and data, and to try to think of problems and the unexpected in advance. It hasn't rubbed off yet.

If the company is genuine, then your parents have the option of a free 500W system, which should get the 16p 20yr rate, with 4.5p export (as long as the total isn't greater than 4kWp).

But they absolutely will need a new 500W MCS certificate to go with the new 500W system. I can't believe they'll want to do the paperwork (I've heard it now takes 3hrs or so to complete) for free.

I think it's definitely worth considering, and they could delay the application till the current one is complete, just in case it interferes (but not wait past the next deadline, whenever that is).

I don't understand the 'most companies don't want to know' bit. If your parents TGM readings are repeatedly 15% more than expected there's a good chance it'll get challenged during at least 1 of the 100 TGM submissions.

Mart.

tunnel

Not wanting to hijack the thread but i'm going to be increasing my capacity from 1.96kwp with another 2kwp. heres the interesting bit.
In the T &C's of my FIT contract part 3.10 states "If you extend your FIT generation within 12 months of the date that your FIT gen installation was entered onto the central FIT registry such extension will be treated as part or the original FIT generation installation and the FIT payments you are eligible for will be updated according to any increase in capacity"

does this mean i can still get 45p a kwp(on the extension) or the current FIT rate.

My contract is with SSE,i've spoken to my installer and he's also with SSE and believes that he's reading it the same way(ie 45p a unit). Any thoughts?;)

Oh and my 12 months is up in november.

Martyn1981

tunnel wrote: »

does this mean i can still get 45p a kwp(on the extension) or the current FIT rate.

My contract is with SSE,i've spoken to my installer and he's also with SSE and believes that he's reading it the same way(ie 45p a unit). Any thoughts?;)

Oh and my 12 months is up in november.

This is something that I kept hearing and reading about. But as I understand it, was changed last year (before Nov I think!), as it technically left the door open for a 49kWp system being upgraded to 100's.

I checked with EDF, the EST, and OFGEM/DECC, they all had the same rules and interpretation, 'it's the total kWp at that property (MPAN) and the corresponding rate at the time of registration'.

So for you that would be upto 4kWp (3.96kWp) rate for the additional 2kWp at the current 16p + 4.5p for 20 years.

I'd read through the DECC stuff, then send an e-mail to both your FIT provider and the EST to get confirmation.

Mart.

Martyn1981

Hopefully this helps:

http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/meeting_energy/renewable_ener/feedin_tariff/fits_review/fits_review.aspx

EXTENSIONS

Since announcing the outcome of the fast-track review, DECC became increasingly aware of evidence some large-scale solar PV developers were intending to use provisions in the FITs legislation on the accreditation of extensions to installations, to take advantage of the current tariffs beyond 1 August 2011. This was not the intended effect of the extension rules and was clearly inconsistent with the objective of the fast-track review.
Therefore, a consultation on the treatment of extensions was held from 27 July to 31 August 2011. The outcome of this consultation was announced on 27 September 2011 and confirmed the decision to amend the rules on extensions. These amendments have been made through the Feed-in Tariffs (Specified Maximum Capacity and Functions) (Amendment No.3) Order 2011 [External link], which was laid in Parliament on 27 September 2011 and came into force on 18 October 2011.
The new rules mean that if the extension takes an existing installation over a tariff band boundary, the extension would immediately receive the new tariffs for the larger band, but the original installation would continue receiving the current tariff for its current band.

Since your extension won't move you into the larger band, I'd read that last sentence as "the extension would immediately receive the new tariff for the 'existing' band".

Mart.

tunnel

Hmm,

The new rules mean that if the extension takes an existing installation over a tariff band boundary, the extension would immediately receive the new tariffs for the larger band, but the original installation would continue receiving the current tariff for its current band

Still not sure what to think of that Martyn,my contract was taken out late november 2011(well after the review),surely if its passed through parliament then the FIT providers would be made to re-write their terms and conditions a bit more clearly. I will be phoning SSE today to see if they can clarify the situation.

At the end of the day my contract still says i should get the existing tariff(how i read it) if i increase my system size but stay under the next tariff band.

Will keep you updated,may be of use for the sticky for anyone else looking to increase their array of panels.

Tunnel

Martyn1981

tunnel wrote: »

Hmm,




At the end of the day my contract still says i should get the existing tariff(how i read it) if i increase my system size but stay under the next tariff band.

Will keep you updated,may be of use for the sticky for anyone else looking to increase their array of panels.

Tunnel

TBH the info from the FIT providers isn't great. I think the important words for you are 'receive the new tariffs for the larger band'.

Whilst you are not moving bands, the 'new tariff' bit is crucial.

Please update as this will be very useful for the sticky, as you say. Though if I had to guess at your chances of getting 45p for a new install, I'd estimate them somewhere between nil and zero!

Can I ask, what orientation do you have, thinking of adding, and what inverter? I spent weeks trawling through inverter specs and tech sheets, and there are a few things to consider long term that might improve efficiency, but it all depends on whether or not you can share an inverter, since that will mean sharing a TGM which could cost you if the new system is not as high performing as the existing one.

I appreciate that I'm only the one eyed man in the land of the blind, but 1 is infinitely better than none. So my research may be of some use to you.

Mart.

tunnel

Think this may answer my own question,

33. However, to address concerns raised in the consultation, we have decided to implement a
modified version of the amendments proposed in the consultation document. From the date
of commencement of the order, an extension to an installation which occurs within 12
months of the eligibility date of the original installation will be subject to the same rules as
those applying to an extension which occurs more than 12 months after the eligibility date of
the original installation.
34. Thus, the tariff for the original installation (excluding the extension) will remain unchanged,
but, once it has been commissioned and accredited, the extension will be given a separate
Tariff Code and have a different Eligibility Period. The tariff for the extension will be based
on the aggregate total installed capacity of the original installation and the extension, and
on the tariff rates applicable at the eligibility date of the extension. In this way, developers
can still choose to extend an installation but the tariff assigned to the extension will be the

current tariff, rather than the tariff at the time the original installation commissioned

Still think its open to challenge,if a FIT provider doesn't change their contract T&C's in line with goverment policy they're leaving themselves wide open. Just my thoughts.

Martyn,On your extensions,have you had an export meter put in? Do you think its possible to "use" the leccy off the 1st install but export more from the extensions to make use of the 4.5p export tariff?

tunnel

I'm pretty similar to yourself mate, existing is ESE(1.96kwp),extension will be SSW(2kwp) and considering a WNW(2-2.5kwp)(my missus at home all day with 2 small kids and uses the leccy for fun:mad:)

Tunnel