2 semis converted into 1 gas /electric / water ?

AlwaysOntheGo_3

Hi,

I'm looking at the short term conversation of 2 semi's into 1 house for 5 years or so.

(Long story I won't go into, I'm not looking at financial gain)

Currently we are paying two council tax / and utility rates. Not ideal for sure.

The wife has been on the phone all day trying to get advice on what options we have to get the electric and gas down to one charge but ended up with a nightmare pass around on the telephone.

She's been told that from one property the gas and electric meters would have to be removed and the feeds removed from the house. This may involve digging the road up outside to do this !
They did not give a charge for this.
They then said that when we wanted these supplies re-enabled the charge would be large but they could not use the existing gas pipes as this would need to be upgraded at even more cost to meet latest standards.

The water is unknown.

Can anyone please offer any further advice that would allow us to do the conversation without huge expense. I believe she was told that if we class it as one house only 1 utility feed is allowed.

I thought it would just be a fuse pull for the electric but it appears it must be removed totally so not feed is internal.

Yes we have been granted permission, building inspector visited and was very helpful. The only requirement we have is that 4 mains interlinked smoke alarms need to be fitted, top of stairs both sides and lower hall.

Door access between the two houses is needed upstairs and downstairs also.

I'm happy to do this as it's straight forward enough. It's just the utilities that has my head in a spin... And the wife !

Many thanks

Please note message also posted on the DIYNOT forum as desperate for advice or options.

spiro

For elec it could easily cost you £000s to remove and then reinstall and they will take the cables back to the street. However if they think you are going to split them in 5 years they may refuse the request as 'future use identified'.

Terrylw1

Disconnections are usually free however its nothing to do with the supplier, you have to ask the distributor this as its their equipment. They do all the work, the supplier just removes your meter, informs the distributor of your request asking they contact you and tie up your billing plus de-appoint their agents at the end of the process to stop them going out.

The supplier won't want to do this until you are ready and you only need information. I would advise against speaking to your supplier about the distributors work because if they get it wrong, the distributor won't take any liability for it.

The distributor doesn't want customers starting the process with them but if its just information, they will help.

They don't charge for disconnection but they will definitely charge for the reconnection, since its classed as a new connection.

There are alternatives to this.

You could have the fuse removed on one elec meter and have the gas one clamped/collared. You would be re-routing any load though so the supplier might want you to disconnect.

You could have just the meters removed.

Both of these options will stop billing but the supplier might have an issue with this.

Its also possible that if one meter is removed, the supplier or distributor might "logically" disconnect the MPAN/MPRN if they find out the properties are now classed as one and rewired as they would be classed (technically) as "associated" hence the one with no load could be disconnected. Its a possibility, that might happen out of error, but there would be a supply there but the distributor would want to check first before allowing re-use without a full project (the supplier would then just apply for the MPAN and fit the meter which would be free or just the cost of a visit which is far cheaper than a full new connection project) but I'm not sure how the gas would work here.

Personally, I think by altering the address and changing the tax basis of the properties, the supplier/distributor will want to disconnect.

spiro

I should have added that by going from two elec supplies to one, there may be a need to upgrade the remaining supply. This could cost £000s if it requires a new cable or a few £00 if just a new fuse and meter are required.
Given the amount of rewiring required to join to 2 into 1 and the associated cost plus cost of splitting in 5 years how much would you save by only having 1 supply. Looking at the new BG standing charge tariffs it would cost you £64pa or £320 over the 5 years to have 2 supplies. SSE would cost a similar amount. I suspect the cost of merging the 2 into 1 and then splitting again will cost you more than that so why bother?

Pincher

The main thing is actually council tax.

With gas, get a Tier1/2 tariff, so you won't pay anything on one of the accounts, because the meter never moves. I assume you will have one working gas boiler, and one kitchen.

You can do the same with electricity. Obviously, you need to connect the consumer unit to next door with a 100A armoured cable, which a qualified electrician can do. Under the floor, so it doesn't show. In five years, disconnect the 100amp cable, poke it under the floor, restore the meter connection, all is back to normal.

Alternatively, With electricity, have one account on Economy 7.
It should be possible to wire things so both sides use normal electricity from address A, and then switch to B overnight on a timer.

With water, you get a meter for each sides.

You will probably save £300 a year on standing charges, so it's £1,500 over five years. Not really worth the hassle. This is dwarfed by the Council Tax, which is £2,000 x 5 = £10,000.

JC_Derby

Terrylw1 wrote: »

Disconnections are usually free however its nothing to do with the supplier, you have to ask the distributor this as its their equipment. They do all the work, the supplier just removes your meter, informs the distributor of your request asking they contact you and tie up your billing plus de-appoint their agents at the end of the process to stop them going out.

The supplier won't want to do this until you are ready and you only need information. I would advise against speaking to your supplier about the distributors work because if they get it wrong, the distributor won't take any liability for it.

The distributor doesn't want customers starting the process with them but if its just information, they will help.

They don't charge for disconnection but they will definitely charge for the reconnection, since its classed as a new connection.

There are alternatives to this.

You could have the fuse removed on one elec meter and have the gas one clamped/collared. You would be re-routing any load though so the supplier might want you to disconnect.

You could have just the meters removed.

Both of these options will stop billing but the supplier might have an issue with this.

Its also possible that if one meter is removed, the supplier or distributor might "logically" disconnect the MPAN/MPRN if they find out the properties are now classed as one and rewired as they would be classed (technically) as "associated" hence the one with no load could be disconnected. Its a possibility, that might happen out of error, but there would be a supply there but the distributor would want to check first before allowing re-use without a full project (the supplier would then just apply for the MPAN and fit the meter which would be free or just the cost of a visit which is far cheaper than a full new connection project) but I'm not sure how the gas would work here.

Personally, I think by altering the address and changing the tax basis of the properties, the supplier/distributor will want to disconnect.

Terry im afraid some Dno's do charge for disconnections, they may quote a price for that. However as Terry has said the supplier will remove the meter for nothing, they will then send a data flow to the Dno's.

PasturesNew

When you want to reinstate them as two - you'll need to apply for Planning Permission ... so you should ask yourself how much hassle it'd be if they don't give it.

Terrylw1

Pincher wrote: »

The main thing is actually council tax.

With gas, get a Tier1/2 tariff, so you won't pay anything on one of the accounts, because the meter never moves. I assume you will have one working gas boiler, and one kitchen.

You can do the same with electricity. Obviously, you need to connect the consumer unit to next door with a 100A armoured cable, which a qualified electrician can do. Under the floor, so it doesn't show. In five years, disconnect the 100amp cable, poke it under the floor, restore the meter connection, all is back to normal.

Alternatively, With electricity, have one account on Economy 7.
It should be possible to wire things so both sides use normal electricity from address A, and then switch to B overnight on a timer.

With water, you get a meter for each sides.

You will probably save £300 a year on standing charges, so it's £1,500 over five years. Not really worth the hassle. This is dwarfed by the Council Tax, which is £2,000 x 5 = £10,000.

Mixing the wiring between properties isn't advisable.

In rewiring, an engineer coming out to connect the meter tails wouldn't do it.

Pincher

Terrylw1 wrote: »

Mixing the wiring between properties isn't advisable.

In rewiring, an engineer coming out to connect the meter tails wouldn't do it.

I find most of what people want to do to their houses "not advisable". But they will butcher their houses any way.

Buy to Let "developers" are splitting and merging properties all the time. Perfectly good houses are butchered into flats of obscenely awkward dimensions, and five households where there was one is not uncommon. I doubt that they take capacity planning seriously.

My parents bought a semi over 30 years ago, which was split into upstairs and downstairs flats. There was a separate kitchen upstairs, with separate electricity and gas meters.
Informed the suppliers and council, bit of disconnection and re-wiring by the supplier, plumber, electrician, and it was a four bed semi again.

If they can merge the two semis, it's the council tax that is the big saving. Like I said, gas and electric is not worth doing anything physical with when a no standing charge tariff will do the job.

Terrylw1

Pincher wrote: »

I find most of what people want to do to their houses "not advisable". But they will butcher their houses any way.

Buy to Let "developers" are splitting and merging properties all the time. Perfectly good houses are butchered into flats of obscenely awkward dimensions, and five households where there was one is not uncommon. I doubt that they take capacity planning seriously.

My parents bought a semi over 30 years ago, which was split into upstairs and downstairs flats. There was a separate kitchen upstairs, with separate electricity and gas meters.
Informed the suppliers and council, bit of disconnection and re-wiring by the supplier, plumber, electrician, and it was a four bed semi again.

If they can merge the two semis, it's the council tax that is the big saving. Like I said, gas and electric is not worth doing anything physical with when a no standing charge tariff will do the job.

If they intend to do it with an E7, they need to wire anything 24hr to the day circuit. The night circuit should be only for the off peak appliances that need to trigger. This would leave 1 meter with no load but the supplier is going to keep getting flags for a possible stopped meter.

Totally agree when it comes to developers, they look to the cost and dump a later occupant with the costs of unravelling the mess they caused.

AlwaysOntheGo_3

Hi, sorry for the delay coming back to the thread. All input is very much appreciated.

It appears that in my naivety I had 'hoped' that each property would be allowed to have an electric meter and gas meter each.
Then I would be billed on the combined amount of usage of both meters. I suspect this is not the case unfortunately.

I'm still trying to understand however if it is legal to have two gas feeds if the properties have an internal access door to each other.

I know from a finance side its crazy but even if I was prepared to pay dual rates is it legal to have gas supplies in both houses. And electric.

Many thanks