Dylan and Scruff the kittens

ian103

The kittens have settled in well, currently chasing each other round the living room, young dog is being looked on as the mother! Old dog sulking / ignoring. Anyway a few questions:-

1/ how much would you expect the kittens to eat? up until today they have not really eaten the dry food we were told they we used to - Hills, but I opened a pack of food from Tesco (their expensive dry food) and all gone.

2/the food bowls we round the corner from the litter tray and about 1m away, now moved further away but less discrete. could this have been the issue in it was too close to their toilet?

3/the female has started to use either a cardboard box or the dogs furry bed in the lounge as a toilet (happened again first thing this morning). box removed and dogs bed washed - could the issue be they don't like to share a litter tray at night? no problem in the day as it is cleaned out after use.

I'm sure we will solve the problems but its great to see them playing and fighting with each other - boy can they move quick.

OnAndUp

There is a saying on the pets forum.......

This thread is useless without photos?!?!? :rotfl:

Congratulations on the kitties, never had a kitten only older cats so can't really help, but I'm sure someone who can will come along soon!

ian103

Yes, I need to upload some new photos now weve had them for nearly a week

Fire_Fox

What do you mean by Tesco expensive dry food? AFAIK all the own brand biscuits are ~5% meat content/ very high cereal content so will be sprayed with 'meat digest'. This makes them into kitty crack for some, but the feed rate is much higher, poop rate is much higher and the quality nutrition much lower. It's not recommended to chop and change from a reasonably high meat content food like Hills to a high cereal food like most supermarket products, it can upset the digestion. Are you supplying wet food also?

Litter tray, water bowl and food bowl should all be well away from one another which is easier said than done when you are confining them in the first week! Some cats won't share a tray, some won't pee and poop in the same tray, some won't go in a dirty tray, some won't go in public, some guard the tray and stop others going. Inappropriate toileting can be a sign of stress, even if they don't seem stressed all the time it's still a big new world. Where are the other trays sited, are they private enough for the female kitten to want to go there when she is let out in the morning?

ian103

the hills was what was recommended by cats home but neither showed much interest, ate a max of 30g / day between then, we had already brought some Nutricat, and I put about 30g down and they wolfed it, but starangely they have also eaten most of the 30g morning serving of hills. we are giving them some kitten milk, should we also be feeding them wet food?


the kittens have the run of the lounge / office / kitchen / dining room periodically in the day for them to run round in. Their pen for the first week is the guest wc\utility / front hall and conservatory (unless its too hot) their bed is in the hall with the food, the litter tray is in the toilet. The problem seems to be first thing in the morning - not sure the female likes / will use a soiled tray - we are going to try a second tray tonight (wife has a seed tray that should do as a trial). The kittens are used to wood pellets - could we easily change to normal cat litter?

how do you know if a kitten is stressed - she seems happy enough, doesn't seem to have a voice / purr but sems happy to play and fight her brother.

ian103

ian103

Fire_Fox

ian103 wrote: »

the hills was what was recommended but neither showed much interest, max 30g / day between then, we had already brought some nutricat, and I put about 30g down and they wolfed it, but starangely they have also eaten most of the 30g serving of hills. we are giving them some kitten milk, should we also be feeding them wet food?

the kittens have the run of the lounge / office / kitchen / dining room periodically in the day for them to run round in. Their pen for the first week is the guest wc\utility / front hall and conservatory (unless its too hot) their bed is in the hall with the food, the litter tray is in the toilet. The problem seems to be first thing in the morning - not sure the female likes / will use a soiled tray - we are going to try a second tray tonight (wife has a seed tray that should do as a trial). The kittens are used to wood pellets - could we easily change to normal cat litter?

how do you know if a kitten is stressed - she seems happy enough, doesn't seem to have a voice / purr but sems happy to play and fight her brother.

The feed rate is a guideline, if they are eating it all increase the portion size or number of meals a day. Ideally they would be free fed but you can't do that if you have dogs. Supermarket kitten milk is a treat not a meal, a good quality wet food would be better if you are on a budget because that is supplying animal protein and animal fat which are essential for growing kittens. Cans or tetrapacks tend to be much better value for money than pouches.

Bingo on the litter tray being the likely culprit - it's recommended to have one per cat plus one extra, or one per floor of the house whichever is greater. They should never have to share, never be far from a tray, never have to use a pooped in tray. Underbed storage boxes are huge and under a fiver from Home Bargains or B&M. What do you mean by normal litter? Don't ever use clumping clay for a kitten they may eat it and get a blockage. Kittens tend to prefer a small grain so you might get on well with something like Oko Plus which is also wood so *should* smell similar to the current litter. Switch slowly, a mixture first.

Cats are supposed to be confined to one quiet room 24/7 at first not half the house: this helps them feel safe and in control, get that space full of their own pheromones, know where the litter tray, water and food are situated. Then introduce them to one room at a time if at all possible, so they can fill that with pheromones returning to their original safe room if they wish. A hall is not private, there tends to be a lot of coming and going, a conservatory usually is a lot of glass so not a defined space. Cats are good at hiding stress and pain, but you are reporting several signs - not eating properly, inappropriate toileting and not purring. Maybe go back to basics, confine them and try a Feliway diffuser?

ian103

Today they have cleared both trays of food, so I suspect it was too close to the litter tray, will continue to monitor. We have been free feeding them as the dogs are excluded from the cats area, I just wonder if too much at any time / position of food, so hopefully solved, little and often all through the day. I would prefer to use a dry food as I think better for theior teeth in long run. Just put another 30g of food in the tray, both eating again so even more convinced it they weren't eating due to bowl location.

Litter tray, we'll see what tommorrow brings after the second tray overnight. We used to use a lightweight granular litter grey in colour which seemed better - is this what you refer to? If so we will continue with the pellets.

The cats were confined to the hall / conservatory ( blinds all closed and very private ) hall and guest wc\utility all in the part of the bungalow we don't use daily. They have the run as Dylan is a live wire, full of confidence after 48 hours he escaped into the house as soon as we turned the door handle so we have continued to give them the run periodically but have made sure there are queit places / times for the kittens to sleep. May be Scruff is stressed but shes happy playing, being cuddled etc, we'll just have to persevere and see how she develops - a purr can be felt but there's no noise - maybe one for the vet

Fire_Fox

There is no evidence dry food is better for their teeth, that is a myth conjured up by the pet food industry. Any food containing grains/ cereals will feed plaque bacteria and so contribute to dental decay, it is not just sugar and acids. If you want to clean teeth you might feed raw bone in meat, this is how they clean their teeth in the wild. The more modern vets and rescues recommend chicken wings for this purpose and it keeps them out of mischief for a while too! :rotfl:

Grey litter is clay, you are better sticking with something that is not harmful if eaten such as wood or maize or paper. Bear in mind the litter dust sticks to their paws and fur then they wash it off as well as deliberate eating. The rescue probably used wood pellets because they are cheap and safe, tho I have to say I find Oko Plus very economical because it absorbs and clumps well, and there are even cheaper alternatives now. Some people use sand or garden earth if they have space to deal with the mess or when they are trying to encourage their cats to toilet outside!

ian103

I like the idea of the chicken wings, sounds like a good treat, I assume you cook them first and the bones are OK for a cat.

OK we may try the wet food at some point, but the kittens have eaten very well today so fingers crossed. Our choice was a two fold decision for our dog, tinned food was too rich / digestive problems and in fairness the 17 year old dogs teeth are in very good condition considering his age so we may need to reconsider for the kittens.

Second litter tray now installed, kittens have paid a great deal of interet so hopefully the toilet problem may be sorted, we continue with the wood pellets for a while as thats what they are used to.