s75 claim refused - advice desperately needed

dizzyblond

Hi, this is my first post and I am in desperate need of advice. I bought a hot tub from an english company using my credit card. After only 6 weeks flakes began appearing in the water which chemicals did not remove. Eventually the retailer sent an engineer who (after days of testing) cut out the pipework and completed a report which said that the pipework is breaking down. We sent samples of the pipework to the retailer to request a refund. He refused.
We applied to the credit card company (Nationwide) who said it sounded as though the hot tub was not fit for use and to complete their forms and send in the evidence. We did this including the engineers report. However they replied to say the retailer had supplied a report from the chinese distributor which stated that the pipework was fine and that it was caused by our use of hot tub chemicals. Nationwide chose to go with the distributors report and refused our claim unless we could provide another report.
We are unable to get further evidence because the pipework is missing therefore no other engineer is able to test the hot tub for us to provide further evidence. Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated???

opinions4u

Google Financial Ombudsman Service.

chattychappy

How on earth would the chinese distributor know what's going on?

I think pursue NW to the end of the complaints process. Then either go to the FOS or sue them. It seems the engineer on the spot produced a report which is on your side.

derps

I have never owned a hot tub so I apologise if this is a stupid question but were the chemicals normal every day stuff that everyone puts in hot tubs? If so, it doesn't even matter if the manufacturer is correct and it was the chemicals. You want to double-check the instruction manual and make sure it doesn't contain a list of chemicals to avoid using or anything.

A product needs to be durable enough to be used in a reasonable manner, so if the pipes have degraded because of normal use and normal cleaning agents then the retailer (and Nationwide) will be responsible for this.

Also, were the pipes sent to the manufacturer? If not, I don't see how a reasonable person could give more weight to their opinion than that of the engineer who was there in person to inspect the whole installation.

It's a shame that you don't have the pipes as this means it will be difficult to obtain an independent expert's report.

If you advise Nationwide that you are unhappy and request that they either change their mind or issue a final response, you can then contact the Financial Ombudsman. They will decide whether on balance of probabilities the hot tub was unsatisfactory or if you are responsible for damaging it.

Unless you were filling it with bleach and scouring it with wire wool every evening it will be difficult for the Ombudsman to ignore the engineer's report.

magpiecottage

Assuming that you purchased directly with your Nationwide card, not through something like Paypal or Google Checkout and that the purchase price was over £100 (and if you paid less than that for a hot tub) then, from what you say, Nationwide will have difficulty defending this.

I suggest you write to

Legal & Compliance Division, A2
Nationwide Building Society
Nationwide House
Pipers Way
Swindon
Wiltshire
SN38 1NW

Tell them you are dissatisfied with their refusal to rectify the problem and wish to complain.

Keep a copy and obtain proof of posting (free from the Post Office) or hand it in to any branch of Nationwide and ask for a receipt. There is no need for recorded delivery.

Alternatively, fax it to 01793 657 121

They then have eight weeks from receipt to get a response into the post to you. Receipt will be deemed to be two working days after proof of posting (e.g. today being Thursday it will be Monday), immediately if handed in at a branch, immediately if the receipt on the fax is before 5.00 p.m. on a normal working day or the next working day otherwise.

If you do not then like their response you can go to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

chattychappy

magpiecottage wrote: »

There is no need for recorded delivery.

This is a good tip. If timing is important then Special Delivery does offer a guarantee (but if people are out or refuse delivery it might never be delivered at all).

I'm increasingly finding that Recorded Delivery items get delivered but no record is kept of the delivery. So if you wanted to show you posted your complaint, all you could produce is a receipt which when checked against Royal Mail shows it is still "in the network".

Proof of posting is enough for most situations, as you suggest.

dizzyblond

chattychappy wrote: »

How on earth would the chinese distributor know what's going on?

I think pursue NW to the end of the complaints process. Then either go to the FOS or sue them. It seems the engineer on the spot produced a report which is on your side.

The retailer claims to have sent some of the pipework to the chinese distributors. They have sent a 5 line note back saying that it is not the pipework but our chemicals. They have not asked any questions with regard to our chemicals, all of which are supplied by a reputable hot tub company. Nationwide can't give an explanation as to why they accept the chinese report but not the engineers report. They also say they cant "mediate between ourselves and retailer to get the pipework put back so that we can produce the type of report they require".
FOS is our next step but then somebody else suggested small claims court.

meer53

I don't know much about hot tubs but would it cost much to have the pipes replaced with ones which don't react to your chemicals ?

I know this would be absolving the manufacturer from any responsibility but it just seems to me to be the quickest way of sorting it out. Going through the FOS and ultimately court may sort it out, but then again, because of the problems with the Chinese manufacturer, it could be long, drawn out and stressful.

If it's going to cost a huge amount of money then i appreciate why you want to take it further.

And before anyone jumps on me saying "but it's the principle", i just think that sometimes you have to weigh up your best options.

dizzyblond

Yes it would cost a fortune to replace all the pipework so it isn't a possibility. It is both the air and water piping which is affected so literally all of the pipework and therefore cheaper to buy a new hot tub.
It certainly is the principle, it started breaking down after two months use and cost £2600.

dizzyblond

Derps you are absolutely spot on with what you say. I have put in my letter to nationwide that there is no advice or guidelines in the manual provided regarding which hot tub chemicals to use. We used ones which are nationally used and accepted and which have been verified by an expert (supplied proof of this to them). Therefore even if it were a build up of chemicals the hot tub pipework has failed as it should be made durable to withstand normal use of these. The nationwide have failed to comment on this issue. Any part of my complaint letters which they cannot answer, then they just ignore it!

dizzyblond

magpie cottage, thats really helpful advice thanks. I did purchase it direct with my nationwide cc, and it cost £2600. My S75 application to them was dealt with by their discharge team who changed the goalposts each time they wrote to me asking for different evidence, and they ignored my questions. I have now received a letter from their complaints coordinator saying if I have nothing more to add then this is their final response and they will not help. Should I still write to their internal complaints section prior to the ombudsman as I have already put my questions to their discharge team but they haven't responded. Should I give the complaints team a chance to respond too before the FOS?