What's the cheapest way to run my heating?

cyclonebri1

keithgillyon wrote: »

Ok do an experiment, boil a pan at 10pm & leave it, check it at 6am is it cold of course it is, do the same with your hot water cylinder is it cold ? No it's not because it's insulated, the same applies to your house, I not talking about leaving the heating on 20 all night just turn it down to 12 or so & unless it's really cold outside the heating prob won't even come on.

Thinking back to my schools, long time back, energy cannot be lost, only converted or some other such rubbish.

So, the pan will be cold but your house will be warmer.

And probably damper :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Mulder00

keithgillyon wrote: »

this time I'm gonna shout IF CORRECTLY INSULATED.

If you insulate to the point where there's no heat loss, it probably won't matter, because you'd have to have a vacuum around your house, eventually use up all the oxygen and die.

Heat loss occurs no matter how well you insulate.

keithgillyon wrote: »

Ok do an experiment, boil a pan at 10pm & leave it, check it at 6am is it cold of course it is, do the same with your hot water cylinder is it cold ? No it's not because it's insulated, the same applies to your house

You do an experiment this winter - heat up your house and at 10pm, switch it off completely. Wake up at 6am? Does it feel a bit colder than it did at 10pm? Of course it would, because no matter how well you insulate, your house will leak heat and your boiler will have to use energy to compensate.

southcoastrgi

are you lot completely stupid, i didn't say any of this, read my posts & stop putting words in my mouth, i have never said that heat losses won't occur of course they will & do i have an engineering degree in thermodynamics no i don't & neither do most of you, we are all going by experience, yes you will use energy to maintain a given temp however IMO & thats all it is, you use less energy to maintain that given temp than to heat from cold, why are modulating boilers are so much more efficient than the old range rated ones that just switched on full then off again it is far more efficient for the boiler to lower it's gas intake & maintain a lower output.

ian103

Leif wrote: »

I think Ian was making a different point, namely that in his case the house was not so well insulated, so it was quite hard to get it back up to temperature after letting it cool during the day. As to why he says it was cheaper, he did say the test as unscientific, so without knowing the weather conditions before and after it is impossible to comment.

With regard to insulation the loft was well insulated and the windows were double glazed, the floors were raised timber and sometimes draughty in high winds, the walls were cavity construction but not insulated. I can answer on the outside temperature albeit not scientifically, even in the very cold winter, coldest I can remember for a while (our boiler condensate pipe froze (only did it once in 7 years so I know it was unusually cold) and it was well below zero for 2-3 weeks and it was still cheaper despite gas costs rising. In my case not now an issue as OH works from home so we run the heating all the time, but with 2 different settings. Once we had changed how we ran our heating we never looked back comfortwise and even saved a few quid in the process

Leif

keithgillyon wrote: »

are you lot completely stupid, i didn't say any of this, read my posts & stop putting words in my mouth, i have never said that heat losses won't occur of course they will & do i have an engineering degree in thermodynamics no i don't & neither do most of you, we are all going by experience, yes you will use energy to maintain a given temp however IMO & thats all it is, you use less energy to maintain that given temp than to heat from cold, why are modulating boilers are so much more efficient than the old range rated ones that just switched on full then off again it is far more efficient for the boiler to lower it's gas intake & maintain a lower output.

Actually I do have a couple of degrees in physics which includes classical thermodynamics. That said, I do not understand boilers. If a boiler is always 100% efficient, then it is better to turn the heating off, or down, during the day, and early hours of the morning. But they are not 100% efficient. I don't know how efficiency varies with power output, but my guess - just a guess - is that the variation is not large, and efficiency is good at high output i.e. when warming the house back up. If that is wrong, let me know, and give the actual typical efficiency figures.

But, if the boiler takes too long to heat the house back up, then it is not practical, and you need to keep it on low during the day.

Leif

keithgillyon wrote: »

are you lot completely stupid,

I can only speak for myself, but I am not completely stupid, a bit stupid perhaps, but not completely stupid, albeit others may disagree.

Leif

ian103 wrote: »

I will answer on the outside temperature albeit not scientifically, even in the very cold winter, coldest I can remember for a while (our boiler condensate pipe froze (only did it once in 7 years so I know it was unusually cold) and it was well below zero for 2-3 weeks and it was still cheaper despite gas costs rising. In my case not now an issue as OH works from home so we run the heating all the time, but with 2 different settings. Once we had changed how we ran our heating we never looked back comfortwise and even saved a few quid in the process

I do think you cannot draw conclusions as the experiences are too uncontrolled. That said, do what you feel is best. But post 22 quotes the Energy Saving Trust, and you'd hope they knew what they were talking about, even if you do not trust my understanding of classical thermodynamics.

cyclonebri1

I'm stupid, No, I'm stupid No, I'm ......

Oh ok, I'm Spartacus, and also stupid.;););)

Can I suggest we turn the heat down on this 1 before it boils over???

ian103

My primary objective was to try and make our house more cormfortable and to that end I found a solution, so I was happy, didn't concern myself with the theory / science behind it as I acheived what I wanted, and comfort was the most important criteria to me, I am not prepared to be cold at home if I can avoid it. I would have been happy to pay more to be warm.

Mulder00

keithgillyon wrote: »

are you lot completely stupid

Not all the time, no.

keithgillyon wrote: »

do i have an engineering degree in thermodynamics no i don't

Then stop acting like you do.

keithgillyon wrote: »

you use less energy to maintain that given temp than to heat from cold

No you don't. In a perfect vacuum, you'll consume exactly the same amount of energy to get from a starting temperature to a higher temperature and maintain it, whether you do it fast or slow.

But we don't live in perfect vacuums, nobody lives in a vacuum, therefore heat loss occurs, therefore, to maintain a constant temperature, regardless of how you have insulated, you'll use more energy than doing it quickly.

Insulation only slows heat loss, it doesn't stop it.