Does Your Child Go To A Proper School Or An Academy?

Welshwoofs

Why is the possession of a degree the sole yardstick of either knowledge or the ability to engage children in a learning environment?

As has been said, it's not that long ago that a degree wasn't a necessity and we're constantly being told that O Levels were harder to pass than GCSEs.

Also - what about the more hands-on subjects like PE or Nautical Studies? You don't need a degree to teach sports to kids and in the nautical world, for instance, degrees aren't worth squat because it's the professional qualifications that are based on nautical theory and practice that count.

mynameistallulah

DecentLivingWage wrote: »

Yes, i don't send my son to school to be babysat! I send him to school to be educated to highest possible level of his ability and by the highest possible standard of staff! I am monitoring and watching v closely and suggest all parents do the same.

And no, therell be no improvement in my typing! I'm also a freelance writer/journo and can produce excellence when i have to!

The failure to see your own double standards is astounding!

DecentLivingWage

Welshwoofs wrote: »

Why is the possession of a degree the sole yardstick of either knowledge or the ability to engage children in a learning environment?

As has been said, it's not that long ago that a degree wasn't a necessity and we're constantly being told that O Levels were harder to pass than GCSEs.

Also - what about the more hands-on subjects like PE or Nautical Studies? You don't need a degree to teach sports to kids and in the nautical world, for instance, degrees aren't worth squat because it's the professional qualifications that are based on nautical theory and practice that count.

Do you want your son taught English Language And Literature by someone qualified or unqualified? (or daughter !)

Welshwoofs

DecentLivingWage wrote: »

Do you want your son taught English Language And Literature by someone qualified or unqualified? (or daughter !)

I don't have a son or daughter - but if I did I'd want them taught by someone who was exceptional at English Language and Literature and imparted that knowledge with passion. That doesn't necessarily mean that they have a degree.

Again, I don't term a degree as the sole yardstick of either knowledge or the ability to teach children in an engaging way.

When it comes to English Literature, isn't it the case that much of our greatest poetry and literature was written by people without degrees?

Acc72

DecentLivingWage wrote: »

And no, therell be no improvement in my typing!

Do you accept this attitude from your pupils ?

Ps - I am not even sure that "there'll" (even with an apostrophe) is gramatically correct, however I am not a qualified teacher.

thegirlintheattic

Welshwoofs wrote: »

I don't have a son or daughter - but if I did I'd want them taught by someone who was exceptional at English Language and Literature and imparted that knowledge with passion. That doesn't necessarily mean that they have a degree.

Again, I don't term a degree as the sole yardstick of either knowledge or the ability to teach children in an engaging way.

When it comes to English Literature, isn't it the case that much of our greatest poetry and literature was written by people without degrees?

I agree that a degree is not the only judge of a good teacher but there has to be some way of judging subject knowledge. The government's new regulation doesn't have anyway of judging this. They have taken away the only other yardstick we had (QTS).

There is also the argument that just because you are good at something does not mean you can teach it. You have to be able to explain it and also be able to teach the techniques - for example, English is not just about being able to write very good poetry or a great novel. There are many other things taught in English that some of our great writers may not be experts in or able to teach. You might produce a class full of children that write great prose but are unable to pass an English exam and are unable to write for other purposes.

Teaching is also more than just your subject. I know some very smart and successful people who do not have the interpersonal or communication skills to teach. These people would also struggle when faced with a child that struggles to pick up the basics of a subject, struggles to read or write, or when faced with bottom set Year 9, last lesson on a Friday, in the summer term.

I don't see why, if these 'experts' really want to teach, they can't spend the 7 months it takes to complete QTS; proving their overall ability to teach, not just that they know their subject well. The government could have suggested a shorter QTS for people who show excellent potential or some such scheme but they haven't, they've thrown open the doors without any checks, and left the system open to abuse.

It astounds me that parents are not angry that their children could be taught by someone unqualified and unproven. Is it really likely that Brian Cox, Stephen Hawkings, Bill Gates, Alan Sugar et al. are really going to suddenly turn to teaching after this change in policy?

peachyprice

thegirlintheattic wrote: »

It astounds me that parents are not angry that their children could be taught by someone unqualified and unproven. Is it really likely that Brian Cox, Stephen Hawkings, Bill Gates, Alan Sugar et al. are really going to suddenly turn to teaching by this change in policy?

It equally astounds me that people think that just because there's been a change in policy head teachers who have otherwise proved that they are capable of hiring excellent teaching staff will throw that common sense and their reputation out of the window, just because they can.

You can't lose faith in a previously great school just because they can do something.

(There's actually a pretty good chance Alan Sugar will turn up at our school on the odd occasion )

thegirlintheattic

peachyprice wrote: »

It equally astounds me that people think that just because there's been a change in policy head teachers who have otherwise proved that they are capable of hiring excellent teaching staff will throw that common sense and their reputation out of the window, just because they can.

You can't lose faith in a previously great school just because they can do something.

(There's actually a pretty good chance Alan Sugar will turn up at our school on the odd occasion )

That is the problem, many schools are not run by excellent heads. I'm not worried about my head hiring unqualified staff, we are a good school, and our school has promoted quality over cost cutting or data chasing. But there are schools who already have CS taking classes for months at a time, schools going for the cheapest option, schools cutting teaching time and the choice of subjects. These heads I can see using this as carte blanche to hire who they want.

Good for you to get Alan Sugar, most schools do not have this option available to them.

Welshwoofs

thegirlintheattic wrote: »

I agree that a degree is not the only judge of a good teacher but there has to be some way of judging subject knowledge.

Does having QTS necessarily mean that you know about the subject you're teaching? The daughter of one of my Mother's friends is teaching French at secondary school level and she knows very little about the language (she can't speak it); her subject is Business Studies but that GCSE was pulled and she got moved to French.

There is also the argument that just because you are good at something does not mean you can teach it.

Absolutely, but there's teachers who can't teach but who are experts at their subjects...and presumably to get where they are they had to get the QTS. The worst teacher I ever had was a hot-shot out of the LSE who replaced our old, retiring history teacher. She held a class's attention - he was so bad that people switched off immediately and ultimately we took to winding him up because we found his buttons were pushed very easily. He knew his subject all right...unfortunately he was also a boring little git who couldn't teach.

You might produce a class full of children that write great prose but are unable to pass an English exam and are unable to write for other purposes.

So what's gone wrong with English teaching these days? The average standard of English appears to be bloody awful...and that includes some graduate CVs I've had the misfortunate to read. I've had CVs from school leavers stacked up to the gills with A Levels that have been littered with grammatical errors. I know I'm not alone in that either; it's a common complaint of employers. So if we're at the zenith of teaching excellence, why are we turning out youngsters with poor skills in basic English and Maths? Apparently academically gifted youngsters at that.

I don't see why, if these 'experts' really want to teach, they can't spend the 7 months it takes to complete QTS; proving their overall ability to teach, not just that they know their subject well.

Or how about someone just reviews their practical skills at teaching - rather like a driving test?

It astounds me that parents are not angry that their children could be taught by someone unqualified and unproven.

Personally I'd want someone to have their practical teaching skills and knowledge reviewed, but I wouldn't be so bothered about a rigid academic program.

suki1001

thegirlintheattic wrote: »

Teaching is also more than just your subject. I know some very smart and successful people who do not have the interpersonal or communication skills to teach. These people would also struggle when faced with a child that struggles to pick up the basics of a subject, struggles to read or write, or when faced with bottom set Year 9, last lesson on a Friday, in the summer term.

I know some teachers who have degrees, but I wouldn't say they have the interpersonal skills or communication skills to teach. There are plenty of teachers who shouldn't be in the job and they have got their teaching certificates and degrees for the job. Which is why it isn't so black and white.

There are many experts who I know who have very, very good interpersonal and communications skills. Saying that some don't is the same as pointing out good and bad teachers - it happens in all walks of life.

I'm sure the schools are bothered about their results.