Setting a Date to Change Supply

Terrylw1

Hi Snowman,

Where does it state they have to honour a switch to a date after a contract end period that you make them aware of?

Where does it state they have to honour your current rates? Whilst I agree this should be the way, there isn't any protection outside of escalation where they will, back down anyway since billing the contract rates is cheaper than paying the ombudsman fee. Some suppliers have a clause of 15 days I believe where they will honour the rates if you are switching which a saw in a thread although I didn't check on it. The SLC's should be updated to allow this on top of the unilateral change. After all, the customer can't easily control the switch.

In terms of switch date, they can register anywhere from the next working day to 28 days ahead but must allow a sensible period for the old supplier to be object, per the Master Registration Agreement (MRA).

So, if you worked for the new supplier, you could easily time it and approach the team who send the registration data flow to the distributor asking for X date. This means the customer could also do this. I find this area a bit dubious anyway since you are switching to cheaper rates and if the supplier adds 10 extra days to the switch date, you lose out due to their error. This should be tightened up with the SLC's.

The registration date is fixed and not changed so its easy to agree a date to be sent in a data flow. Its just that it doesn't seem a service offered but there is nothing preventing it.

If you were advised its not possible, the body advising doesn't understand the process to an operational level.

There are many processes where the reality of the industry process differs to what a customer is told.

Terrylw1

Elrond wrote: »

Thanks Snowman for you detailed and useful reply. :beer:
I will be following up your method.
Some more thoughts.
How many individual complaints to Consumer Focus does it take not to be an individual complaint? I will do my bit as well.
Why does this have to be so complicated for energy providers to operate like this? It is possible to agree a longer date to switch utilities when moving house. Is this really any different?
I welcome the fact that switching providers has a cooling off period and be completed within a required time scale, however, there must be many people who know a change is coming and use their available time to plan and instuct this change outside the industry time frame.
Is it just an unwanted biproduct of good consumer legislation for quick changing?
Is it a way to stop customers setting up a potentially better deal for the future even though the deal has a limited time or for a limited number of customers.

To answer some of your questions:

- the SLC governing switching was tightened up last Nov to speed up the process as the length of time was a complaint generating process. There is a clause built in that says the customer can request a switch date that will cause them to fail this and the supplier is no longer tied to 21 days but reasonable endeavours. I would advise against waiving your protection though as you can't use it against them later so time your switch instead.

- moving home is totally different as its all internal. Switching takes place between 2 suppliers, their agents (3 each) and a distributor. Lists of data is flying back and forth.

steph100

I think ther is some confusion with the advice given by the CAB. After experiencing exactly the same issue, I can confirm the desision I received from the OMbudsman. If a consumer is on a suppliers standard rate and they announce a price increase this is a change in their terms and conditions. You then have the right to change suppliers and continue to be supplied at the previous standard tariff prior to the increase taking place. This is subject to the transfer taking place within a resonable time frame. If you have agreed to a fixed tariff that ends on a specific date the T&C's related to that product would have a clause in stating that at the end of the fixed rate you will then revert to the standard tariff the supplier then has every right to charge you at the standard rate, the CAB have given incorrect advice. As mentioned I had the same issue went to the Onbudsman and they agreed with the supplier that I had agreed to specific T&CX's relating to the fixed p[roduct I had requested, therefore they were well within their rights to charge me at the standard tariff until my transfer had completed. In short they confirmed they found in favour of my previous supplier. They also advised me in writing that the usual transfer time frame subject to no objections would take 28 days from start to finish 7 days cooling off 21 days for transfer. If you have any amount outstanding with the outgoing supplier for a period of longer than 28 days they are within their rights to raise an objection which could mean the whole process taking longer.

Terrylw1

steph100 wrote: »

I think ther is some confusion with the advice given by the CAB. After experiencing exactly the same issue, I can confirm the desision I received from the OMbudsman. If a consumer is on a suppliers standard rate and they announce a price increase this is a change in their terms and conditions. You then have the right to change suppliers and continue to be supplied at the previous standard tariff prior to the increase taking place. This is subject to the transfer taking place within a resonable time frame. If you have agreed to a fixed tariff that ends on a specific date the T&C's related to that product would have a clause in stating that at the end of the fixed rate you will then revert to the standard tariff the supplier then has every right to charge you at the standard rate, the CAB have given incorrect advice. As mentioned I had the same issue went to the Onbudsman and they agreed with the supplier that I had agreed to specific T&CX's relating to the fixed p[roduct I had requested, therefore they were well within their rights to charge me at the standard tariff until my transfer had completed. In short they confirmed they found in favour of my previous supplier. They also advised me in writing that the usual transfer time frame subject to no objections would take 28 days from start to finish 7 days cooling off 21 days for transfer. If you have any amount outstanding with the outgoing supplier for a period of longer than 28 days they are within their rights to raise an objection which could mean the whole process taking longer.

The only thing I would put on the end of that is its not 21 days that you pay up to, you only pay up to the agreed switch date which has to be earlier than the 21 day timeframe otherwise it would be impossible to ever achieve this target.

SnowMan

Terrylw1 wrote: »

Hi Snowman,

Where does it state they have to honour a switch to a date after a contract end period that you make them aware of?

Where does it state they have to honour your current rates?

Sorry missed your post.

I am going on what I was told by the Citizens Advice Consumer Service.


That said I think for all practical purposes (and given the Ombudsman complaint option) it is hard to see how a company could refuse to act on a request not to switch before date x (x being no more than 30 days in advance) given that companies (I think) are under an obligation to try and make sure switching goes smoothly (?)


The Citizens Advice Consumer Service verbal statement that the old company must honour your current rates is quite interesting and needs testing.

The case I made when I got SSE to agree to hold the old terms at the end of 2011 was that I had signed up for the term to 31st December 2011, so to automatically switch me to a 20% more expensive standard tarriff after then given I was switching at the end, in a position where I could not control how long I was on that more expensive standard tarriff (because I couldn't specify a switch date), amounted to an unfair term which had not been individually negotiated. And so was an unfair term under the unfair terms in consumer contracts legislation. They said they didn't accept that because they had a policy of waiving any exit penalty in the last month so it was possible to switch without going onto the standard tarriff. I said as they do not publicly state this policy anywhere and I wasn't a mind reader this was irrelevant. They said the Energy Ombudsman would agree with them and it was just tough. I said fine I will test it by going to the Energy Ombudsman please register this as a complaint now. At which point they backed down immediately. They then had to make a manual adjustment to my final bill.

Dave_save

Going back to the OP and his particular concern re fast switching to EDF. I'm in the process of switching to EDF, and originally given dates of 31 July for elec and 4 Aug for gas. On my switching programme this suddenly changed (on 1 Aug) to 28 Aug for elec and 14 Sep for gas. I asked EDF why this was and they attempted to blame me for not supplying a reading when asked (not true which they later admitted). Then they blamed my current supplier (absolute rubbish). Seems to me EDF are in turmoil right now. Even complaints go unanswered and their poor call centre staff are taking all the flak.

So, if you are concerned about switching 'too quickly', switch to EDF, they won't hurry. When mine finally goes through it will be at least 10 weeks from application date!

Terrylw1

Dave_save wrote: »

Going back to the OP and his particular concern re fast switching to EDF. I'm in the process of switching to EDF, and originally given dates of 31 July for elec and 4 Aug for gas. On my switching programme this suddenly changed (on 1 Aug) to 28 Aug for elec and 14 Sep for gas. I asked EDF why this was and they attempted to blame me for not supplying a reading when asked (not true which they later admitted). Then they blamed my current supplier (absolute rubbish). Seems to me EDF are in turmoil right now. Even complaints go unanswered and their poor call centre staff are taking all the flak.

So, if you are concerned about switching 'too quickly', switch to EDF, they won't hurry. When mine finally goes through it will be at least 10 weeks from application date!

Well they have failed SLC14A in your case as they won't hit the 21 days.

The switch process doesn't need your current supplier for anything, but it does require your reading history which comes from the current suppliers contracted Data Collector.

In terms of the reading, that's complete rubbish...the process is to Deem a reading if you don't provide one quick enough so there is no way you could have held it up on that basis. If the current suppliers Data Collector doesn't pass it to the new suppliers Data Collector, it would prevent the validation f your switch reading or the Deeming process if required.

Terrylw1

SnowMan wrote: »

Sorry missed your post.

I am going on what I was told by the Citizens Advice Consumer Service.


That said I think for all practical purposes (and given the Ombudsman complaint option) it is hard to see how a company could refuse to act on a request not to switch before date x (x being no more than 30 days in advance) given that companies (I think) are under an obligation to try and make sure switching goes smoothly (?)


The Citizens Advice Consumer Service verbal statement that the old company must honour your current rates is quite interesting and needs testing.

The case I made when I got SSE to agree to hold the old terms at the end of 2011 was that I had signed up for the term to 31st December 2011, so to automatically switch me to a 20% more expensive standard tarriff after then given I was switching at the end, in a position where I could not control how long I was on that more expensive standard tarriff (because I couldn't specify a switch date), amounted to an unfair term which had not been individually negotiated. And so was an unfair term under the unfair terms in consumer contracts legislation. They said they didn't accept that because they had a policy of waiving any exit penalty in the last month so it was possible to switch without going onto the standard tarriff. I said as they do not publicly state this policy anywhere and I wasn't a mind reader this was irrelevant. They said the Energy Ombudsman would agree with them and it was just tough. I said fine I will test it by going to the Energy Ombudsman please register this as a complaint now. At which point they backed down immediately. They then had to make a manual adjustment to my final bill.

How much was your adjustment? Was it less than they would have paid to the ombudsman as a fee by any chance? If so, that's why they did it.

The waiving issue is just an excuse from them, if its not clearly referenced in the t&c's, you can never know until its too late as in your case.

Suppliers have this practice of ETC's so you are forced onto standard rates. I think the SLC's should be updated to build in 15-30 days of time to switch. They didn't do it for unilateral changes until Ofgem forced it into the SLC's or we would all still be getting stung on those as well.

The ombudsman can always make their own decision but I bet many such cases never make it that far because the fee is higher than the adjustment is worth.

Terrylw1

steph100 wrote: »

I think ther is some confusion with the advice given by the CAB. After experiencing exactly the same issue, I can confirm the desision I received from the OMbudsman. If a consumer is on a suppliers standard rate and they announce a price increase this is a change in their terms and conditions. You then have the right to change suppliers and continue to be supplied at the previous standard tariff prior to the increase taking place. This is subject to the transfer taking place within a resonable time frame. If you have agreed to a fixed tariff that ends on a specific date the T&C's related to that product would have a clause in stating that at the end of the fixed rate you will then revert to the standard tariff the supplier then has every right to charge you at the standard rate, the CAB have given incorrect advice. As mentioned I had the same issue went to the Onbudsman and they agreed with the supplier that I had agreed to specific T&CX's relating to the fixed p[roduct I had requested, therefore they were well within their rights to charge me at the standard tariff until my transfer had completed. In short they confirmed they found in favour of my previous supplier. They also advised me in writing that the usual transfer time frame subject to no objections would take 28 days from start to finish 7 days cooling off 21 days for transfer. If you have any amount outstanding with the outgoing supplier for a period of longer than 28 days they are within their rights to raise an objection which could mean the whole process taking longer.

How does your case compare to the posts regarding notice on this thread.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/55014381#Comment_55014381

m0ss0p

So I followed Snowman's advice. After signing for new Scottish Power deal I email to request they do not transfer me until contract ends and got this reply:

---

Thank you for your email.

Please contact our Sales Team free on 0800 400 200 (Monday to Friday from 8am to 7pm and Saturday from 9am to 3:30pm) for delaying the transfer of supply.

If you have any further questions then you may wish to use our online help facility 24 hours a day

Kind regards

---

Do you think I should call or have I done enough just emailing? Concerned if I call I'll be told can't be done and be worse off if the transfer happens early (before Oct 1st).

Also, EDF now advise by letter that if you tell them you're moving they will keep you on contract prices until complete.