Water Leak, dealing with the clean-up

sghughes42

I'm not totally sure if this is the right board for this query, it is a bit of an odd one! I've posted on both insurance and water as it is relevant to both.

Nearly 2 months ago a pipe burst outside my house and flooded my cellar. No question it was United Utilities' fault - it was underneath the pavement so off my property.

They repaired it fairly promptly, although they have had to come back and re-do the repair as the original repair didn't fully fix the leak.. That is by-the-by though, my main query is regarding cleaning up my cellar and compensation for the contents.

From the off UU tried to push me to claim on my own household insurance. I wasn't convinced and am getting them to clean up the mess and compensate me for the damage but the process is dragging on....

They have instructed another company 'Belfor' to empty the cellar and document all damaged items which they will make an offer for. However, I have been having trouble getting any sort of confirmation from them that I will be compensated for the time I will need to take off work both while Belfor are here doing the job and time afterwards I will need to restore the cellar to the previous state.

It has now got to the point where there is an arrangement for Belfor to attend on Monday but the UU solicitor is no longer responding to my queries. The main sticking point is being compensated for my time. I have asked for confirmation that any time I need to take off work will be paid for but all I have at the moment is a vague promise that it will be 'taken in to consideration'.

To complicate matters, as well as having a full time job I am also self-employed so even time away from work will result in lost earnings. The latest from the UU solicitor is to get me to ask Belfor if they can attend outside my normal working hours. They pointed out that to do so would involve them charging UU a premium rate but I've not had a clear answer as to whether UU want that to happen or not.

I contacted Belfor again tonight and the person on the phone suggested that it was normal for people to just leave a key with them and go off to work while they carried out the job. I am very surprised at this - is it reasonable for them to ask you to entrust the security of your property to some blokes you have never met before? Quite aside from the fact I would like to be around to know what is being thrown out and make sure nothing else gets damaged or put somewhere in appropriate.

Can someone advise what my best bet is from here? Should I call UU off and just claim on my household insurance? If I stick with UU do they have to compensate me for any lost earnings? Can they force me to leave the house in the hands of these people and go to work to reduce my losses? And how can I be sure I am getting a fair price for the damaged items?

geri1965_2

You would be much better off if you submit the claim to your own insurers. UU are not obliged to pay you new for old for your damaged goods, their liability is limited to the value of the items at the time they were damaged, e.g. secondhand value. What items are you talking about?

Of course you can't be forced out of your home to go to work, but if you claim loss of earnings you will have to proof that you have actually sustained a loss. How do you propose to prove your lost earnings?

sghughes42

Their solicitor did point out that they would only pay the going rate for the items, not new for old. However, I would lose my no-claims discount and I suspect have my premiums loaded if I make a claim.

I think the items are going to be rather difficult to value. Until the cellar has been completely cleared out I don't know for sure but I think the only large items which will have been damaged / lost are 2 or 3 suitcases and two old bicycles. Mainly the cellar was used as a store and workroom so the main damage is to timber and the furniture, all of which was old anyway. I have no idea how items such as worked timber will be valued - does the fact I spent time making the timber in to things increase the value or would they just go on the cost of the timber alone? I can't see the claim being for more than a few hundred pounds so it doesn't seem worth losing my NCD for that.

To prove lost earnings from my job I have asked my employer to provide a letter stating my daily wage. The contractor who is coming out to clean up the mess will have a record of how long they were there so that part of it should be easily covered. I have no idea how to prove any time beyond that, or how to put a value on my self-employed time so any advice would be appreciated.

How would that sort of thing be dealt with if I claimed through my home insurance?

geri1965_2

Depends on your policy but most would pay for two new bikes, whereas UU would pay you for two secondhand bikes. Depends what they are worth really. Same with the suitcases and furniture.

Not sure how they would value worked timber. Are they made into items ready for selling? This is not something I've dealt with before but if they are finished articles then the "value" is what you would sell them for, I suppose.

I would guess that the value of the claim if you pursued it against your own insurers is probably more than any loss of bonus. Is there definitely a NCB? My household policy doesn't have one. Your insurers will recover their outlay from UU anyway.

Letter from employer is not proof of loss of earnings. Will they not pay you if you don't turn up for the day? Have you used all your holiday entitlement?

sghughes42

The bikes were bought cheap and second hand anyway, I wouldn't expect much money for them however I claim. Same for the furniture, I think it all came from a charity shop.

The timber isn't made in to items for selling but some are for use in my business and some are for things around the house.

My household insurance (with Halifax) definitely has a no-claims discount, albeit not of the scale you get with car insurance. I've had no claims at all though in the 10+ years of owning a house.

Surely most employers tend to insist you turn up before they pay you? I have not used all my holiday entitlement at the moment but I do have plans for it all. But surely even if I had holiday left they can't expect me to lose out due to something which is their fault?

sghughes42

And just to top this off, I've just found another leak, in the cellar this time. I would appear that during the work to repair the pipe external that was undertaken today they have managed to cause an old water pipe to break inside the cellar. This has soaked the joists and floorboards of the room above...

Are UU likely to take responsibility for this or try and wriggle out as the actual damage is inside my house even though it was cause by them working outside?

If they don't take responsibility then presumably it would be best to take the whole claim to my insurer, although I must admit I don't know how insurance works in this regard. Could the claims be merged or would they be two separate claims? And, a really daft question, once you claim does your insurance policy stop or can you make several claims on the same policy?

geri1965_2

They would be two separate claims. You can make as many claims as you need to under the policy, although if you have to many they might decline to renew.

I think in your situation I would continue with my claim against UU, although you will need to advise your insurers of the incidents.

sghughes42

I did wonder about that but the advice I got from the contractors UU sent out was that if it was UU's fault I didn't need to tell my insurers. Sounds like I had bad advice? Will they think it odd that I advise them of an incident that is getting on for 2 months old?

I've emailed UU to see what they say about this second problem, if they wash their hands of it I'm wondering whether it wouldn't just be easier to take both to my insurer?

phill99

So really you are kicking up a fuss for 2 secondhand bikes with a value of no more than £20 each and some old suitcases which you would struggle to sell at a boot sale. And some old timber that is good for firewood.

Get real about this.

sghughes42

phill99 wrote: »

So really you are kicking up a fuss for 2 secondhand bikes with a value of no more than £20 each and some old suitcases which you would struggle to sell at a boot sale. And some old timber that is good for firewood.

Get real about this.

So I'm supposed to leave the cellar standing in water and covered in sludge?

I said the reason I wasn't claiming of my insurance is that the contents weren't valued at much. The issue is the clean-up and whether my time to be off work and not earning will be compensated.

geri1965_2

sghughes42 wrote: »

I did wonder about that but the advice I got from the contractors UU sent out was that if it was UU's fault I didn't need to tell my insurers. Sounds like I had bad advice? Will they think it odd that I advise them of an incident that is getting on for 2 months old?

I've emailed UU to see what they say about this second problem, if they wash their hands of it I'm wondering whether it wouldn't just be easier to take both to my insurer?

I'm not really an expert on household insurance but there is likely to be a policy condition that you inform them of any incident which may give rise to a claim.

I would report it to them now just to be on the safe side then decide what to do later.