Large gas bill... for an electric only flat!

cpfc25

...Or so I thought!

I occupied a new build 2 bedroom flat in East London from February 2011 until June 2012. The estate agent I rented through marketed the property as being electric only; indeed, there were no gas appliances in the flat. Upon paying my deposit and dealing with the paperwork for the tenancy, I was given a Transfer of Utilities Authorisation document to sign. This document was prepared by the Estate Agent and clearly states that I, as the tenant, am liable for the council tax, electricity and water bills. Gas has been scribbled out by the Agent. I didn't query this at the time as, as far as I and everyone else was concerned, my new flat didn't have gas.

Fast forward to the present time and I'm in negotiations to recoup my deposit, having vacated the property. The Estate Agent have told me in an email that they are withholding from my deposit nearly £600 in unpaid gas bills. After investigatign further, it seems there IS gas in the entire apartment block - there's a main bas boiler underground in the premises with pipes into each flat. These then heat the hot water and radiators in the property. It seems the gas provider has contacted every tenant/Estate Agent connected to the property and is demanding payment. This has caused a big dispute between the provider and my Estate Agent, which could rumble on for months (this is what the Estate Agent tell me).

My main areas for concern are:

-Am I liable for this charge, given I have a legal document stating that I'm not responsible for transfering the utility bills into my name?
-Is it right that I'm being hit for nearly £600 without seeing a single bill/official communication from the gas provider? As it stands all I have is an email from an employee at the Estate Agent quoting the figure.
-The figure has been plucked out of thin air by the Estate Agent, who are basing it on their estimations. Does £35pcm for a 2 bed flat seem a reasonable amount to charge for gas in the first place? Considering the gas is used purely to heat water and not fire up the hob etc.

Any thoughts would be most welcome.

LH

HappyMJ

You are liable for the gas bill directly to the supplier and not the landlord unless the landlord is billing you directly as a shared supply. You should get a bill or at least a statement detailing how the charge was made up.

£35 a month could be reasonable depending on your electricity bill. In a flat supplied with shared hot water and heat I would expect the electric bill to be very low. How is the usage measured?

Andy_WSM

cpfc25 wrote: »

Any thoughts would be most welcome.

LH

First thought - is how on earth did you think your hot water and radiators were being supplied?!

cpfc25

HappyMJ wrote: »

You are liable for the gas bill directly to the supplier and not the landlord unless the landlord is billing you directly as a shared supply. You should get a bill or at least a statement detailing how the charge was made up.

£35 a month could be reasonable depending on your electricity bill. In a flat supplied with shared hot water and heat I would expect the electric bill to be very low. How is the usage measured?

Thanks for replying

To confirm - you would say I'm liable for the gas bill DESPITE the Transfer of Utilities Authorisation staying that I'm not liable for that particular utility?

The Estate Agent is billing me on the landlord's behalf. This is not a case of me being billed directly as a shared supply. Absolutely no bill/statement explaining the charge has been given to us and it seems the Estate Agent has no plans to provide one. They just want my money out of my deposit immediately.

My electricity bills were low indeed. My partner and I were always very pleasantly surprised by them.

I have no idea how the gas usage is measured I'm afraid.

cpfc25

Andy_WSM wrote: »

First thought - is how on earth did you think your hot water and radiators were being supplied?!

I just didn't think about it - I assumed that was covered by the Service/Management charges on the flat. These were paid by the landlord. So when my Estate Agent told me I wasn't liable for gas, I believed it.

notbritishgas

I would say you are not being charged for the gas but for the "heat" provided by means of a communal boiler.
I guess there is no gas supply to the flat hence no meter.
I think the normal method of charging in these circumstances is a flat (excuse the pun) annual charge.
In my opinion £35 per month for HW and heating is reasonable.

However you should have been informed of this arrangement when signing up to the flat.

HappyMJ

cpfc25 wrote: »

Thanks for replying

To confirm - you would say I'm liable for the gas bill DESPITE the Transfer of Utilities Authorisation staying that I'm not liable for that particular utility?

The Estate Agent is billing me on the landlord's behalf. This is not a case of me being billed directly as a shared supply. Absolutely no bill/statement explaining the charge has been given to us and it seems the Estate Agent has no plans to provide one. They just want my money out of my deposit immediately.

My electricity bills were low indeed. My partner and I were always very pleasantly surprised by them.

I have no idea how the gas usage is measured I'm afraid.

Until you get proof of how the charge for hot water and heating is made up I would be defending the deduction. They would then need to take it to tribunal to get the money from your deposit released to them where they would need to provide proof of the charge. They can't just pick a figure out of thin air. It needs to be a fair percentage of the original bill with no mark up if there is no meter on each flat.

dogshome

Hmmm - It seems we have a building where the primary Owners opted to install a central Hot Water & Heating system with a piped to supply to each flat.

In these circumstances the Utility supplier is only interested in issueing a single bill to whichever party registered themselves for the supply through this one (BIG?) meter - This could be the buildings owners or a Management Co they have contracted to run the building - The gas supplier has no interest or responsibility as to how or who uses the Gas once it's gone through the meter

However cpfc25 still has a problem, although a £35 monthly gas Heating and Hot Water charge is not unreasonable, there seems to have been major c*ck-ups by the Owners, Managing Agents & Letting Agents which have still not been finally resolved, so £35 might not be the end of the story

In cpfc25's shoes I would quickly agree in writing that Agent deducts £420 from the deposit as Full & Final setlement of Gas charges for his period of occupation, then grab the deposit balance and run

spiro

cpfc25 wrote: »

Upon paying my deposit and dealing with the paperwork for the tenancy, I was given a Transfer of Utilities Authorisation document to sign. This document was prepared by the Estate Agent and clearly states that I, as the tenant, am liable for the council tax, electricity and water bills. Gas has been scribbled out by the Agent.

If the agent has initialled where they crossed out gas and they also have a copy then I would tell them to go whistle dixie for the money as they have stated you are not liable. If necessarily force them to take you to court and use the paperwork as evidence. If if you loose I would then argue that you have as long to repay as the debt took to accrue i.e. 16 months.

cpfc25

spiro wrote: »

If the agent has initialled where they crossed out gas and they also have a copy then I would tell them to go whistle dixie for the money as they have stated you are not liable. If necessarily force them to take you to court and use the paperwork as evidence. If if you loose I would then argue that you have as long to repay as the debt took to accrue i.e. 16 months.

That's exactly what I did. I reminded the Agent that I was in possession of the photocopied document that has gas scribbled out/signatures from myself and the agent. They will have the original on file. I have refused to pay on these grounds and am ready to go to court if that's how this situation plays out.

After battling with the Agent about this he seems rattled; he is backtracking and saying perhaps the gas WAS not covered by the management fees paid by the landlord. He's checking that out as I type.

The whole thing just seems so fishy to me. The letter we have from the Agent regarding this gas issue isn't addressed to me (it's "to the occupier") and isn't on headed paper. No name, date, signature or contact details is on it either and the English is terrible. This may not be a big deal but it seemed odd to me.

The letter says that "there is an issue presently between the Block Management Company and their PROPOSED gas supplier". It also says "you will need to keep in contact with (agency name) regarding us paying the utility company after you've given us your money. Maybe an email once a month to chase would be fine". I disagree - they don't respond to emails, and I think if I were to hand over nearly £600 I'd want to see evidence it was paid to the gas provider pretty sharpish!!

Anyone else agree it's a bit strange?

cpfc25

dogshome wrote: »

Hmmm - It seems we have a building where the primary Owners opted to install a central Hot Water & Heating system with a piped to supply to each flat.

In these circumstances the Utility supplier is only interested in issueing a single bill to whichever party registered themselves for the supply through this one (BIG?) meter - This could be the buildings owners or a Management Co they have contracted to run the building - The gas supplier has no interest or responsibility as to how or who uses the Gas once it's gone through the meter

However cpfc25 still has a problem, although a £35 monthly gas Heating and Hot Water charge is not unreasonable, there seems to have been major c*ck-ups by the Owners, Managing Agents & Letting Agents which have still not been finally resolved, so £35 might not be the end of the story

In cpfc25's shoes I would quickly agree in writing that Agent deducts £420 from the deposit as Full & Final setlement of Gas charges for his period of occupation, then grab the deposit balance and run

I agree, there has been a major c0ck up somewhere! And you're quite right, the 35pcm might not be the end of the story. If for some reason the gas charge ended up being MORE THAN £35, my Estate Agent has stated, in writing, that the landlord would pay the rest.