ESA50 filled in. ATOS assessment - what do they ask?

rogerblack

schrodie wrote: »

Point 60 in the above judgement may differ on that opinion.

Also don't forget that the tribunal is only there to ascertain whether you satisfy the criteria for ESA if there is any dispute between you and the DWP and not the behaviour/conduct of an Atos HCP during the assessment.

Read the judgement referred to.

http://www.pjlinvestigations.com.au/media/covert_recordings_of_disciplinary_meetings_with_an_employer.pdf

It largely dismisses the argument that anything other than 'private deliberations' covertly recorded (without the claimant in the room) could be inadmissible. In the ESA assessment, there aren't any such. (unless you bug the office where they may go to consult a superior in the event they think you may be eligible for the support group)

The conduct of the ATOS HCP is largely irrelevant to the tribunal process, unless it leads to a weakness of the report that would directly affect the judgement of a decisionmaker reading that report.

For example, if you state you gave up driving, as you suffer epileptic fits, but you are referred to in the report as able to drive, and those fits are not mentioned.

JS477

At their every best covert recordings are only useful in that they provide an audible record of what was said. At their worst they can get your assessment stopped with the associated consequences. As far as submitting covert recordings to an appeal tribunal I very much doubt it would prove fruitful as they're only interested if you can pass the WCA together with any further evidence you may have to support your case and seeing that the law has been applied even then they may not do that hence the Upper Tier Tribunal. Any problems you may have had with the integrity of Atos is none of their concern.

It's always best to be fully cognisant of your rights and the current situation with regard to the administration of the WCA rather than playing James Bond!!

rogerblack

JS477 wrote: »

As far as submitting covert recordings to an appeal tribunal I very much doubt it would prove fruitful as they're only interested if you can pass the WCA together with any further evidence you may have to support your case

Evidence which is irrelevant should be (by their rules) be ignored by the tribunal.
This would include you saying you can walk 23m, and the doctor writing down 22m, or them saying you opened the door, not them. (If your ability to open doors is not in question).

It would also include them being unprofessional in ways which do not mean the evidence they are gathering is incorrect, such as saying you were ugly, or general rudeness.
These would all be causes for complaint to ATOS.

But there is evidence they must consider.

If you answer a question one way, and it's recorded another, if this is not explained as to why they did this, and it's a clear and important error the tribunal are required to take this into account.

For example, if you said you have a pet fish, and they say you have a pet dog which you walk 400m every morning, for example, when your claim was on the basis of mobility.

The tribunal do not, and cannot treat the assessment by ATOS as a perfect unquestionably correct document.

It is a powerful bit of evidence, that has been provided by a trained professional. It does attempt to answer the specific question of the applicability of the descriptors to the claimant.

However, the assessor is human, and may make errors, either due to poor training, carelessness, fatigue or the pressure of work.

schrodie

rogerblack wrote: »

Evidence which is irrelevant should be (by their rules) be ignored by the tribunal.

Exactly so presenting a covert recording of how the Atos assessor behaved during your assessment because you failed to pass the WCA at a tribunal is going to receive short thrift. In the event of any dispute regarding the DWP's decision they are there to decide whether you are eligible for ESA or not.

It is not their job to police Atos!

rogerblack

schrodie wrote: »

Exactly so presenting a covert recording of how the Atos assessor behaved during your assessment because you failed to pass the WCA at a tribunal is going to receive short thrift. In the event of any dispute regarding the DWP's decision they are there to decide whether you are eligible for ESA or not.

It is not their job to police Atos!

To police ATOS - to investigate complaints about the behaviour of ATOS - no.

To examine all the evidence - including the medical report performed by ATOS - certainly.

You seem to be arguing that the tribunal can never take any notice of flaws in the assessment done, and must take it as gospel

Having actually read the tribunal rules, this does not seem to be the case.
Nor are shortcomings of the ATOS report actually ignored by tribunals.
It's evidence, but it is not the sole bit of evidence, or unarguable.
It is compiled by humans, and can have errors.

schrodie

rogerblack wrote: »

To police ATOS - to investigate complaints about the behaviour of ATOS - no.

To examine all the evidence - including the medical report performed by ATOS - certainly.

Quite right! You forgot also to examine any extra [medical] evidence supplied by the claimant not previously submitted or requested by Atos.

dazza-mac

Hi, I waiting in today for a letter from ATOS hopefully acknowledging my phone call, letter and email. But no, nothing came so I had to ring them.

I had no choice but to use a public phone and couldn't hear a flaming thing nor understand the guy on the other end.

I explained I specifically asked for a pm appt but was given an am one. I said that I'd rang, emailed and sent a recorded letter requesting my appt changed to pm. Nothing on file! Told I shouldn't have written to the local examination centre - but that was the only address on the flaming letter! In the end we were both arguing over the phone. I said I sent a letter and nobody has contacted me and my appt is wednesday. In the end in sheer frustration I put the phone down after saying I'd have to ring back. I later rang again from someone's house (should've gone there in the first place) and still got nowhere.

This time though I was told the am appointment would be cancelled but they wouldn't send me confirmation as I was concerned that come wednesday if it had not been cancelled I would be classed as a no show. I eventually got another number to ring - the local medical examination centre! (no number in my letter of original appt so I had no choice but to send a recorded letter). So hopefully, my am appt has been changed to pm on a later date. I spoke to a guy who arranges the recordings and he confirmed the later date and time and booked the recording too. He said I'd get a letter sent out. Why then was that number not included in my letter in the first place? The freephone number was merely to change the appt, but they could not confirm if it would be recorded.

I'm dreading anyone listening in to the recorded telephone calls as I was just ranting and raving. It's so frustrating when you do what you think you should. I rang - the wouldn't call my mobile back. I wrote and sent it recorded - where is it!?. And I emailed ATOS and told it would be forwarded - still no letter.



I have to say I ended up like a ranting lunatic on the phone to the appts dept (freephone number) They threatened to end the call. I was saying how disgraceful it was that I have tried ringing etc and getting nowhere, and that everyone could hear me discussing private stuff as I had to go out to use a public phone - in the entrance to a store. The second person I spoke to later said he'd cancelled the appointment and they 'may' write with a follow up appt as I no longer have a mobile phone. That's when I got the medical examination centres number.

When I spoke to the examination centre (the only people who I could understand as both people at the appts centre were foreigners with a difficult accent)
I'm bricking my appt date. They could not have read my ESA as it was so long. If they read it on the day I'll be there for hours! I doubt they'll give me time to answer every point. And that's worrying me too, as some people have said they don't go through the ESA form, but merely ask you trick questions like "what do you watch on tv?" to see if you can sit for long. So I really don't know what to expect, and that worries me more by the minute....

HB58

I can confirm that the ESA50 is not used during the assessment.

JS477

dazza-mac wrote: »

So I really don't know what to expect, and that worries me more by the minute.

If you can do try and take someone with you as a companion and possibly to take notes, this is in addition to you requesting that your assessment be recorded.

rogerblack

HB58 wrote: »

I can confirm that the ESA50 is not used during the assessment.

It varies.
Mine had at least had skimmed it.