Grandparent may have too much cash for state help..

First post, so hope this is in the right place.. and hello to all!

My grandad is currently looking to get some form of home care, or move into a nursing home. He is 92, and has worked all his life and paid taxes, NI etc ..

He feels, and probably rightly so, that after such a time, he is entitled to a little help from the Government.

The only problem is, I fear he has way too much money saved up, possibly 30 - 40k, to get any sort of financial help from the state. And to be honest, I think there is also the fear of someones inheritance being eaten into..

Is there any way he can move some of this money to another account, give some away etc.. before he applies for any benefits?

I'm sure this sounds totally dishonest, but its not meant too. He also owns a flat that is worth about 120k.

I know that he could sign the property over to someone, but they would then be liable for capitol gains tax, if it was a second property.

ANy help suggestions would be greatly received..and please go easy on me :o
«1

Replies

  • Hi Alfienoakes,
    This site has some interesting information,unfortunately your grandparent has too uch in the way of assets to qualify for any assistance and giving any away is against the law and will not prevent them being taken into account anyway.

    "Giving away property and savings

    It is illegal to give property or savings to another person in order to qualify for financial help from your local authority. This is called 'deprivation of assets'. If the local authority believes that you have deliberately given away assets so as to reduce or avoid fees for accommodation they may try to claim the fees back. ""

    I know it seems wrong especially after they have paid their dues but the benefits are there for those who have meagre assets................sorry but your grandparent will have to use their assets to fund their care.

    The most important thing is they recieve the care they need ,however it's paid for ................sorry
  • Nope, I agree with you there. The MOST important thing here is that he gets a good quality of life for his final years.. I've already told him he should spend the some cash on himself!!

    I ginda new that that was the case, but just wondered if there was any other advice around..

    Thanx..
  • alfienoakes,

    I had a relative in a similar position a few years ago and she got her care paid for by the local authority because she had Parkinsons Disease. I think other illnesses may have qualified her also.

    I must stress that I don't know whether this rule still applies, or whether it would apply to your Grandad, but it might be worth checking. His GP would probably be the best person to ask.
  • margaretclaremargaretclare Forumite
    10.8K Posts
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re frugal_dougal's comment, a lot depends on whether your grandfather needs nursing or whether he just needs 'care'.

    Frugal_dougal's relative had a definite diagnosed degenerative medical condition for which she required nursing. This is funded differently, and people should get their nursing care free, whether at home or in a designated nursing home.

    If grandad just needs 'care' i.e. a bit of help with what are called 'activities of daily living' i.e cooking his meals, help with personal cleanliness, those kind of things, then he's expected to pay for it himself.

    It can often be more cost-effective to contact a local care agency which you'll find in your local phone book, get someone to come in and do things for him. All care assistants have to be properly vetted and police-checked because they're going into the homes of a vulnerable group of people.

    This can often be cheaper than paying a residential home for your board and lodging, and you get to stay in your own home for longer.

    HTH

    I should add, I am going to be 70 myself in a couple of months' time. I've also worked, paid taxes etc etc, and every time I see this kind of comment I see red. My second husband and I have over a century at work between us. I see red when I see the mention of 'inheritance'. No one has an automatic right to an inheritance. Your grandad has savings and he doesn't want to spend them on himself - well, he should!

    This is the opposite way from how we look at things. We have a pretty good income between us, not a lot of savings (he had 2 expensive divorces!!) but if we did have a lot of savings then we'd make darned sure it was used for OUR comfort and convenience, not squirrelled away to benefit someone else. We've spent a bit over the last few years making this bungalow as easy-care as we can - shower cubicle replacing a bath, new kitchen, a whole lot of things like that. Can't understand why more people don't think the way we have!!! (rant over)

    Margaret
    [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Æ[/FONT]r ic wisdom funde, [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]æ[/FONT]r wear[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ð[/FONT] ic eald.
    Before I found wisdom, I became old.
  • cheerfulcatcheerfulcat Forumite
    3.3K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    ✭✭✭✭
    First post, so hope this is in the right place.. and hello to all!

    My grandad is currently looking to get some form of home care, or move into a nursing home. He is 92, and has worked all his life and paid taxes, NI etc ..

    He feels, and probably rightly so, that after such a time, he is entitled to a little help from the Government.

    The only problem is, I fear he has way too much money saved up, possibly 30 - 40k, to get any sort of financial help from the state. And to be honest, I think there is also the fear of someones inheritance being eaten into..

    Is there any way he can move some of this money to another account, give some away etc.. before he applies for any benefits?

    I'm sure this sounds totally dishonest, but its not meant too. He also owns a flat that is worth about 120k.

    I know that he could sign the property over to someone, but they would then be liable for capitol gains tax, if it was a second property.

    ANy help suggestions would be greatly received..and please go easy on me :o

    I totally understand your grandfather's position but unfortunately the way the system works is that people who earn and save keep those who do or have done neither.This is called redistribution of wealth.

    Given his age and situation, he could consider buying an immediate needs annuity, which would pay the nursing home fees -

    http://sharingpensions.co.uk/annuity_immediate_needs.htm#text4

    This would mean that the bulk of his assets could be preserved for him to pass on, if that's what he wants to do ( though I agree with margaretclare that it would be better if he were to use the money to make life more comfortable for himself, I do understand that people may want to leave something behind for their descendants ).

    HTH

    Cheerfulcat
  • Poppy9Poppy9 Forumite
    18.8K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with Margaretclare he should spend his money on himself.

    What does your granddad want to do? Where does he want to live? If he wants to stay in his own home can he live alone or is it possible for a member of the family to move in with him? Is this what he is asking in a roundabout way?

    If he is able to stay home he will be entitled to some form of homecare from the Local Authority. If you contact Social Services they will arrange for someone to come out and assess his needs. He will then be assessed on the contribution he has to make towards his care. Many local authorities cap the amount you have to pay for homecare although some charge the full cost. If staying home is his preference he should use his savings to upgrade his home. As been mentioned putting in an easy accessible shower, installing hand rails in and outside the home. Changing light switches and plugs to make them easier to use. An electric riser bed, new chairs. You could install an entry phone so he could see who is at the door and open it from his chair. Even replacing carpets and removing rugs can improve his safety at home.
    :) ~Laugh and the world laughs with you, weep and you weep alone.~:)
  • Bogof_BabeBogof_Babe Forumite
    10.8K Posts
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh dear, another "I'm entitled" thread :(

    The benefits and social security services are already in a state of meltdown, due to this sort of attitude.

    It was never intended that at some stage of life people could give up on providing for themselves.

    That is why we are encouraged to save.

    It's our life, why should anyone else pay for it?
    :D I haven't bogged off yet, and I ain't no babe :D

  • Paul_VarjakPaul_Varjak Forumite
    4.6K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Combo Breaker
    ✭✭✭✭
    I think the most important thing for your grandfather is that he is looked after well. This can best be done if he funds his own care, as that gives him the widest choice of care providers.

    If he gave assets away, the Council may seek recovery from those who received any gifts. If the Council did not seek recovery and paid for your grandfather's care he would not be allowed to contribute to that care (even from funds he may still have that are, in total, below the contribution limit). In effect that means a limited choice of homes that the local authority would pay for.

    If your grandfather requires nursing care, the NHS pays for that (not means tested) but the maximum contribution is around £125/week. And to get that you really need a lot of nursing care.

    for more advice contact: www.nhfa.co.uk
  • Poppy9Poppy9 Forumite
    18.8K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bogof_Babe wrote:
    Oh dear, another "I'm entitled" thread :(

    The benefits and social security services are already in a state of meltdown, due to this sort of attitude.

    It was never intended that at some stage of life people could give up on providing for themselves.

    That is why we are encouraged to save.

    It's our life, why should anyone else pay for it?

    Thats a bit harsh. At least he has provided for himself for 92 years. I don't think he can be classed with Able Career Claimants who have never worked or contributed to the welfare state. :(
    :) ~Laugh and the world laughs with you, weep and you weep alone.~:)
  • Paul_VarjakPaul_Varjak Forumite
    4.6K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Combo Breaker
    ✭✭✭✭
    I have just noted the info posted by Trafalgar (which is quote from the Help the Aged site). It claims that deprivation of assets (to avoid care fees) is illegal. I believe that is incorrect. If it was illegal to deprive oneself of assets in order to get free care, there would be a punitive penalty (in addtion to recovering the care fees costs). There is no such penalty!!

    More information on deprivation of assets can be found from the NHFA here:

    http://www.housingcare.org/downloads/kbase/2338.pdf

    Incidentally, Help the Aged have, with its Care Fees Advisory Service, an arrangement with financial advisors who run NHFA. Neither the Care Fees Advisory Service, NHFA nor Tyler Clark (who run both NHFA and the Care Fees Advisory Service) claim that deprivation of assets is illegal!
This discussion has been closed.
Latest MSE News and Guides