Points

arcon5

In my search for insurance many insurers are asking for details of any endorsements in the last 5 years.. although the points are removed from the license after 4 years (for most minor endorsements that is).

So why ask for 5 years history and not 4? Can they verify whether any points have been removed?

fivetide

Points are removed from a point of view of 'totting up' so if you had nine and three expired you wouldn't get banned if you got three more.

However, the offence being committed doesn't expire and its used to calculate risk. The more points the riskier you are to insure, nothing more.

No comment on whether it makes too much difference to premiums though!

5t.

Aretnap

Even though the endorsement can be removed from your licence, it's still a matter of fact that you were convicted of the offence, and so the insurance company is entitled to ask you about it, and by not declaring it when asked you'd potentially be invalidating your cover, not to mention committing fraud.

The exception is when the offence becomes "spent". Under the Rehabilitaion of Offenders Act, convictions become spent after a certain length of time, and then do not have to be declared to insurers, employers etc, even if they ask. (There are exceptions for some jobs which require a high degree of trust, such as the police, or jobs which involve working with children). The length of time an offence takes to become spent does not depend on how long the points stay on your licence but rather on the other part of the penalty - for offences which attract a fine (ie 99% of motoring offences) the rehabilitation period is 5 years, and this is why most insurers ask about convictions in the last 5 years.

How easy it is in practice for an insurer to find out about points which have been removed from your licence I'm not sure - but presumably last year you told your insurer about them, and insurers do occasionally talk to each other...

Hintza

Have a look at Direct Line, I am about to renew a policy and it looks like they only go back 3 years. I was slightly surprised so will need to double check it again but perhaps worth a look.

Personally I think insurers are being a little disingenuous with their 5 years. Why don't they ask for 10 then they could ramp the premiums for many more folk.

dacouch

Hintza wrote: »

Personally I think insurers are being a little disingenuous with their 5 years. Why don't they ask for 10 then they could ramp the premiums for many more folk.

Because they can only ask for 5 years as per the rehabilitation of offenders acts for driving convictions

Joe_Horner

Hintza wrote: »

Why don't they ask for 10 then they could ramp the premiums for many more folk.

Because thanks to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974, even if they asked, you wouldn't have to tell them. Apart from a very few circumstances, once the offence is rehabilitated (5 years for any sentence the law considers that you never done it guv

Hintza

Thanks guys I didn't realise that. So they probably would ask for 10+ years if they could

Aretnap

Hintza wrote: »

Why don't they ask for 10 then they could ramp the premiums for many more folk.

(a) Because you would be entitled not to tell them about convictions more than 5 years old (unless you went to prison for them, or got some other unusual sentence with a rehabilitation period of more than 5 years) and (b) because even if you did tell them about spent convictions, they'd be in breach of their statutory duty if they charged you a higher premium because of them - at least that's how the Financial Ombudsman sees it.

Aretnap

Hintza wrote: »

Thanks guys I didn't realise that. So they probably would ask for 10+ years if they could

Many used to ask about drink-driving convictions in the last 11 years (which is how long an alcohol related endorsement stays on your licence), but that seems to have stopped - see the link to the FO website in my post above.

Interestingly the rehabilitation period is halved where the offender is under 18 at the time of conviction, which means that a driver who is convicted as a seventeen year old can legally reply "no" to the question about convictions after two and a half years - even though he still has active points.

When the relevant provisions of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 are commenced, the rehabilitation period for most driving offences will drop to 12 months. I'm not sure whether there'll be an exemption for insurance companies, but I imagine they'll want one.

fivetide

Good thread this. I've learnt some stuff at least and I thought I was pretty au fait with it all!

5t.