Paypal refused my claim due of insufficient evidence of return postage. Help !!

meggiedude

Hi there.

Ordered electrical item from abroad and regretted it as withinn 24hrs of arrival it stopped working.
Raised issue with seller, who initially ignored me. Finally he sent me a replacement part for it which did not fix issue. Further correspondances with seller did not get anywhere so raised claim with Paypal.
Spent the last 2 months jumping through hoops with them.
Finally they got me to return the item to seller. As it was abroad used Parcelmonkey, an online courier service, to reduce costs to me.

When the item was collected the courier provided me with receipt for collection, but this was printed, not signed/stamped.
Provided scanned copy of this to Paypal along with copy of package label and online tracking info to show it had been collected.

Item then got stuck in customs overseas as seller refused to pay for customs on it.
So sent this email and further online tracking info to show item in customs

Paypal just closed my case as insufficient evidence of postage/delivery and refused refund.

Help!!!!!!

bris

The seller refusing to pick it up in customs is often a win for the buyer as it's classed as an attempted delivery.
It's often easier to explain this to a person instead of email.
https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/helpscr?cmd=_help&t=escalateTab
Click the link and on the call us tab you can get a personal code to use when you call them. Explain it to a real person and they can reverse the outcome of the claim.

bris

You could also ask for the thread to be moved to the Ebay board, there is excellent help on Ebay related issues over there.

meggiedude

bris wrote: »

The seller refusing to pick it up in customs is often a win for the buyer as it's classed as an attempted delivery.
It's often easier to explain this to a person instead of email.
https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/helpscr?cmd=_help&t=escalateTab
Click the link and on the call us tab you can get a personal code to use when you call them. Explain it to a real person and they can reverse the outcome of the claim.

Will do so mate, although I've not heard that you can get get a Paypal claim decision reversed.
The issue here is that they are refusing to accept my evidence that its been collected, not delivered, not even that its stuck in customs.
Its almost like they have me on a technicality. They have the email from the couriers to say is stuck in customs, they are refusing to accept that that parcel is related to this claim, even though the reference numbers and screen capture of the couriers parcel tracking web page are the same.
This all seems to stem from the fact that with online couriers you do not get a stamped receipt like you do in the post-office.

WRT ebay - its not an ebay purchase. It was purchased via Paypal from company abroad.

Gavin83

Why are they due to pay customs charges anyway? I was under the impression no charges were due for returns.

meggiedude

Gavin83 wrote: »

Why are they due to pay customs charges anyway? I was under the impression no charges were due for returns.

Try telling that to Chinese customs. If the item is of any value (and I shipped it with an insured value for my own protection) , even if its an RMA return, then chinese customs will not let it through.
I learnt all this recently btw.
They only way it might have gone through without customs stopping it would be to say it was a gift. But if they stopped it anyway I would be in trouble.

Hintza

Gavin83 wrote: »

Why are they due to pay customs charges anyway? I was under the impression no charges were due for returns.

Because they will be seen to be importing something to their home country. Customs don't know it is a return (nor would they probably really care)..

meggiedude

Well update from Paypal.
Ridiculous really.
Despite the email saying the claim was closed in the sellers favour because there was no evidence that the item was posted, when I spoke to the operative at paypal they said that there was no evidence that the item had been either delivered or returned.

Clearly neither had happened as its stuck in Chinese customs and they know that, but they just closed the case in the sellers favour.

So Paypal have agreed to raise an appeal and reopened the case.
The trouble now is I need the item returned to me before I have a chance at getting my cash back.

I have threatened them with referring to FSA if they just close the appeal. Probably shouldn't have done - but was wound up. Polite and everything - but deeply frustrated.

bris

This is where being on the Ebay board would come in handy.
Sellers often refuse to collect or sign for returned goods, this is why attempted delivery is enough for a buyer to win a claim. In this case it should have been as easy as showing the item was sent but the buyer is refusing to accept it.
I don't see why having the item sent back to you is going to help because you would have the same problem when sending it again.

meggiedude

@bris
OK, well unsure how to move this to the ebay forum, otherwise would have done.

As it is the Paypal appeal was almost immediately refused.
Have now sent email to them thus:

Hello
I phoned about this case yesterday and lodged the appeal.
I was told (by your operative Helen at 4:50pm 24th July) that the reason the reason case was closed was not that I provided insufficient evidence about tracking as you state below, but that there was no evidence that the item was delivered or returned.

If it is stuck in customs, as per the evidence I sent to you twice, then clearly it is not going to be delivered or returned!

If the seller, which you are happy to do business with, has refused to pay the customs charge then I have to await the redelivery.
But you have not allowed time for this redelivery, from China, nor have you given correct information below.

The responsibility is not mine if the seller refuses to pay custom charges when you dictate the rules.
I followed your instructions promptly and to the letter and have evidence to back this up. Not only have you refused to reimburse me, wasted my time, but you have also caused me to incur additional postal charges (approx. £40). These I will be looking at recovering back from you.

Note: Unless this is resolved to my satisfaction, I will be referring your practices to the Financial Ombudsman Service, BBC Watchdog, Trading standards, VISA and anyone else I can think of.

I will be putting all of this in writing to you and expect a response.

In the mean time you have the opportunity to prevent this happening. I await your response by email. If I do not hear from you within 48hrs I will set the balls in motion.

BTW By "redelivery" I meant return delivery, but I hope they realise that.

MD

wealdroam

meggiedude wrote: »

OK, well unsure how to move this to the ebay forum, otherwise would have done.

Send a PM to our Board Guide - Squeaky.