We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
Debate House Prices
In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non MoneySaving matters are no longer permitted. This includes wider debates about general house prices, the economy and politics. As a result, we have taken the decision to keep this board permanently closed, but it remains viewable for users who may find some useful information in it. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
The Forum now has a brand new text editor, adding a bunch of handy features to use when creating posts. Read more in our how-to guide
cash in hand payments - morally wrong?
Comments
-
Jennifer_Jane wrote: »I'm not complicit in tax-dodging if I pay cash, and when you think of what could have been claimed against tax, eg vehicle costs, advertising, parts, uniform, perhaps etc, then paying cash to a small trader is probably peanuts.
i'm afraid this is not right.
they will be declaring some of their income, and then claiming ALL of their costs against it and claiming back ALL of their input VAT, and then not declaring a wedge of income which (a) they don't pay output VAT on, and (b) they don't pay any CT or income tax on.
so you are not just facilitating cash flow when you pay in cash in return for a significant discount. what you are doing is assisting the person in taking a slice of pure profit off the books and by doing so wrongfully evading tax. you receive remuneration in the form of a discount for assisting with this evasion.0 -
Estimates of the size of the informal or black economy in the UK vary, for obvious reasons - somewhere between 5% and 15% apparently, depending on who you believe. But is sure is a lot more than 'peanuts'. Unless they're gold plated, diamond encrusted peanuts.
This is true but how many in that black economy are part time workers e.g. domestic cleaners, bar workers who would be below the tax threshold anyway."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
It's quite clever and cunning what is going on. Recently the HMRC wrote to trades people like plumbers and gas engineers to offer them an opportunity to declare untaxed income on their own volition, and avoid heavy penalty. Now they are trying to create an impression that all cash payments are automatically dubious. It's a classic hunt technique to flush the rabbits out of the holes by sending the dogs in and sounding the horns.
It is cheap soundbite territory that would (IMO) actually put very little in real (net - after deduction of collection costs) terms into the exchequer.
I know a couple of self employed people (non VAT) who operate in a mixture of cash, invoice and cheque. They also have some novel expenses that are claimed as revenue items, that can be legitimately claimed as business expenses but equally could be personal expenses."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »This is true but how many in that black economy ar e part tim eworkers e.g. domestic cleaners, bar workers who would be below the tax threshold anyway.
Quite a few I'd imagine. But that doesn't change the fact that there is a black economy, that it's worth billions, and that governments are wont to cast an envious eye on it.0 -
chewmylegoff wrote: »i'm afraid this is not right.
they will be declaring some of their income, and then claiming ALL of their costs against it and claiming back ALL of their input VAT, and then not declaring a wedge of income which (a) they don't pay output VAT on, and (b) they don't pay any CT or income tax on.
so you are not just facilitating cash flow when you pay in cash in return for a significant discount. what you are doing is assisting the person in taking a slice of pure profit off the books and by doing so wrongfully evading tax. you receive remuneration in the form of a discount for assisting with this evasion.
Does it get morally less acceptable if they are VAT registered I wonder?
Perhaps that is the tipping point between the small guy and the big guy. The difference between somebody mowing your lawn or the chap building your extension.
An arbitrary line on on a HMRC statisticians spreadsheet."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Ivana_B_Rich wrote: »If I really believed that not paying 'cash in hand' would actually lead to lower taxes for all I might be more motivated to comply. Unfortunately I don't really believe.
No one believes it. It's like Father Christmas - a nice pretence.
The government tries to extract as much tax as it can. Always, regardless of how many people are trying to avoid or evade it. If the total take isn't enough, it just borows the difference or prints some more money to inflate the currency..
How morally wrong is that? On a level with clipping gold coins I reckon.This is a system account and does not represent a real person. To contact the Forum Team email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0 -
Perhaps we should do away with cash completely!
I should like to enquire of the Chancellor/HMRC just how people are to pay tradesmen if cash is not acceptable ....are the banks not still proposing to send cheque books to the great Clearing House in the sky?
So is my window-cleaner supposed to carry a swipe machine with him at all times, so that he can accept my card payment? Or am I supposed to set up a direct debit with him in order to pay?
Small businesses are already preyed upon by the bankers - this would seem to be another way of squeezing the pips til they squeak!0 -
-
Sorry but what does black economy mean? I agree its funny alot of company directors are on just £8k a year even yet brand new car, mortgage free, holiday 3 times a year, 40 hour week if that. Takeaways every other night.
Salary and income two very different but very simular things.:eek:Living frugally at 24 :beer:
Increase net worth £30k in 2016 : http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69797771#post697977710
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 354K Banking & Borrowing
- 254.3K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 455.2K Spending & Discounts
- 247K Work, Benefits & Business
- 603.6K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 178.3K Life & Family
- 261.1K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.7K Read-Only Boards