(Mechanical genius required) Brake pedal spongey even after brake shoe adjust

JooFox

Hello all. I have an issue with my brakes that I'm a little confused about.
A few weeks ago the rear drums started grinding a little which I put down to the shoes needing to be replaced as the handbrake was also a little ineffective.
Checked fluid and it was almost empty so topped it up.
I ordered the drums, but before they arrived I was driving along and the brake pedal went right to the floor and I had to push it right against the floor to stop. I managed to drive 2 miles home using this method.

I waited for the new shoes to turn up, and also replaced the pads at the front. First drama was that I couldn't remove the rear hub which I imagine is due to a lip on the hub. Loosened off the handbrake cable but it only allowed me to remove one side. The other wouldn't let me feed the cable in to the drum, so feels a bit screwed in there :eek:

Anyway, as I couldn't do this job simply I tightened the cable back up and adjusted it so the handbrake was tight at three clicks. I pumped the brake pedal a lot with the engine off and then on. I went for a slow short drive and the brakes were marginally better but still have the pedal at the floor, they are just a bit more effective. I'm imagining it is something to do with the rearsneeding sorting out (or air in the system). The fluid is still up to the brim so it seems there is no leak as I pushed the brake system quite hard tonight and expected to find some loss.

My brain has exhasted it's knowledge now so I really need some help

Does this make sense to any one with a superior brain to me?

I would really appreciate some help as I'm mechanically very capable of sorting this job, it's just I've come up short on the fault finding.

Thank you for reading :beer:

MX5huggy

Got to rule out air in the system. Bleed the brakes out untill new fluid comes out, there by making sure no old spongy fluid is in the system.

James_N

JooFox wrote: »

Hello all. I have an issue with my brakes that I'm a little confused about.
A few weeks ago the rear drums started grinding a little which I put down to the shoes needing to be replaced as the handbrake was also a little ineffective.
Checked fluid and it was almost empty so topped it up.
I ordered the drums, but before they arrived I was driving along and the brake pedal went right to the floor and I had to push it right against the floor to stop. I managed to drive 2 miles home using this method.

I waited for the new shoes to turn up, and also replaced the pads at the front. First drama was that I couldn't remove the rear hub which I imagine is due to a lip on the hub. Loosened off the handbrake cable but it only allowed me to remove one side. The other wouldn't let me feed the cable in to the drum, so feels a bit screwed in there :eek:

Anyway, as I couldn't do this job simply I tightened the cable back up and adjusted it so the handbrake was tight at three clicks. I pumped the brake pedal a lot with the engine off and then on. I went for a slow short drive and the brakes were marginally better but still have the pedal at the floor, they are just a bit more effective. I'm imagining it is something to do with the rearsneeding sorting out (or air in the system). The fluid is still up to the brim so it seems there is no leak as I pushed the brake system quite hard tonight and expected to find some loss.

My brain has exhasted it's knowledge now so I really need some help

Does this make sense to any one with a superior brain to me?

I would really appreciate some help as I'm mechanically very capable of sorting this job, it's just I've come up short on the fault finding.

Thank you for reading :beer:

I too "understand" brakes, but would not dream of diagnosing and treating a fault myself. Is your life and the lives of others so cheap that you can afford to take risks like this?

Get it sorted by a garage.

And it's probably air in the system. Or a defective pipe. Or contaminated fluid. Or ...

mikey72

A sudden change won't be just air in the system. You need to sort the back out. Get them stripped down.

hareng

Brake fluid absorbs water and should be changed every so often, think its 3 or 4 years. Though you can get DOT 6 a synthetic.

Need to pump the new fluid through for starters, long strokes right down to the floor then back up, just keep it going.
If that dont cure it check the brake lines, there could be a pressurised leak some where or even a master cylinder.

ariba10

JooFox wrote: »

Hello all. I have an issue with my brakes that I'm a little confused about.

Checked fluid and it was almost empty so topped it up.

Thank you for reading :beer:

I would be prepared to bet a lot of money on it being air in the system.

I would (or get someone) to bleed the system.

JooFox

James_N wrote: »

I too "understand" brakes, but would notdream of diagnosing and treating a fault myself. Is your life and the lives ofothers so cheap that you can afford to take risks like this?

James_N wrote: »

Get it sorted by a garage.

And it's probably air in the system. Or a defective pipe. Or contaminatedfluid. Or ...

Although I see your concern. I'm not taking any risks here as I'm going to locate the issue by using the process of elimination and then fix it. I'm an engineer who doesn't cut corners. I would put the same argument to people whotrust their lives in the hands of mechanics they don't know.

Once I picked up my car from a well know garage only to find at 60mph the wheel started to judder. The cause was that the wheel nuts hadn't been tightened.

I wouldn't make a mistake like this as I really appreciate and value my lifeand those of others. The more you do the more you learn. This is the way I learn. This isn't my main car and it will sit idle until it is completely serviceable. I see this as a project that will help me diagnose future issues.

I know the point of forums to some people is to judge others whilst providing no information of value, but please, you don't know me, and you don't know my motivations. I can assure you that I'm not going to be driving towardsa school at full pelt until these brakes are tested up to and beyond the manufacturers specification.

JooFox

I'm going to bleed them tonight and see if that fixes the issue. Either way, I've ordered new rear hubs as think I'm going to have to destroy the passenger side one as it just isn't budging.
Any tips other than a trolley jack and a crow bar? :rotfl:

agrinnall

Bit touchy this morning aren't you? If you're that good an engineer why are you having to ask what the problem is on a forum rather than just fixing it?

Norman_Castle

I'm anengineer who doesn't cut corners.

Engineering is a skilled profession. How do you qualify yourself as being one?

To remove the rear hub try removing the hub nut and replacing the wheel. This gives extra leverage. Turning the wheel while pulling it over the brake shoes may work.

Faulty self adjuster may be the problem. Long pedal movement caused by large gap between the shoes and drum.

cb1979

Might pay to remove the rear drums before bleeding the brakes, a common problem when a car is a few years old is leaky rear wheel cylinders which may account for you brake fluid loss
Quite often the bleed nipples are siezed and may shear when you try to undo them so you will have to replace the cylinders