UKPC Parking Charge on rental car

Askew

Hello everyone,

A week ago I received a parking charge on a rental car in Belfast at a free private car park for customers of a shopping centre at the Boucher Road. It was a Saturday (14/7) and it was rather busy. Loads of cars driving around looking for spots and none to be had. It was parked at the end of a row of cars, outside a bay. There was plenty of room to maneuver for other cars, but being parked outside the marked bays was obviously 'wrong'. I did not notice any clear signs or markings upon entering their car park that informed me anyone parking was subject to any charge or otherwise in case of 'illegal' parking.

After shopping I was treated to a parking charge notice on the windscreen, which informed me that I was liable for a 90 pound charge, but they would accept a 60 pound payment within 14 days as a full settlement. The company that issued it is called UK Parking Control Ltd. I am normally inclined to pay this kind of thing immediately to avoid any sort of trouble but people have been telling me that I should ignore this because private companies have no right to enforce these 'fines'. I have done some reading on this issue but there are still a couple things that make me nervous and that I haven't been able to find anything about.

1.) As stated above, it was a rental car. How likely is it that they will 'give' me 'up' to the notice issuer?
2.) Could they use the credit card details I gave to the rental car agency to collect the parking charge?
3.) How bad is it that it was parked outside the markings in their car park? Does this give them any legal rights?

I realise that people here may not have all the answers to these questions, but I would like some knowledgeable input if anyone has any, so I can decide whether to practice risk avoidance or money saving in this particular case.

Thanks in advance for any replies!

Stephen_Leak

We know more about parking than most PPC owners.

Firstly, the legal stuff.

Only councils, the police, train operators and Transport for London can impose legally enforceable fines or penalties. A private company or individual can't. A private parking company (PPC) call their tickets “Parking Charge Notices”, not “Penalty Charge Notices”. In law, they’re called “speculative invoices”.

Any warning signs are usually so badly positioned and worded, that they won’t have created a fair and legally binding deemed contract between the car park owner and a driver entering the car park in the first place. See The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997 and Excel Parking Services vs. Cutts, Stockport, 2011.

All the car park owner (CPO) can claim from a driver in damages for any alleged breach of any alleged contract is what they’ve lost as a result. If it’s in a free car park or the driver paid, this is £0.00. Demanding more has been judged to be unreasonable and therefore an unfair contract penalty under the terms of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997, which is not legally enforceable. See Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. vs. New Garage & Motor Co. Ltd., House of Lords, 1914 and countless cases since.

There are also now recent landmark court cases, VCS Parking Control vs. Ronald Ibbotson, S!!!!horpe, 2012, HM Revenue & Customs vs. VCS Parking Control, Lower Tax Tribunal, 2012 and VCS Parking Control vs. HM Revenue & Customs (Appeal), Upper Tax Tribunal, 2012. In these cases, the judges ruled that only the car park owner can take drivers to court. The Upper Tax Tribunal is a court of record, equivalent to the High Court, and therefore its judgement sets a legal precedent.

What should I do now?

We don’t condone not paying or overstaying in a pay car park. If you owe the CPO the original charge, then you ought to write to the CPO, offering this in “full and final settlement”. In any event, you should write to the CPO, advising them that they are "jointly and severally liable" for the actions of their agents, the PPC, and that any further actions by either of them would be regarded as harassment under the terms of The Protection from Harassment Act 1997. This ought to make the CPO call off the PPC and, hopefully, realise the potential cost of doing business with a PPC.

Don’t appeal to the PPC. They always reject them. What’s in it for them to let anyone off? Actually, there is something in it for them: information. They need to know the identity of the driver of the vehicle involved at the time, because that’s who the alleged contract was with. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to make do with harassing the registered keeper.

With windscreen notices, an appeal letter will tell them your name and address, and maybe who was driving at the time. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to buy the details of registered keeper from the DVLA. With postal notices, they’ve had to do this already. But they still need to know the identity of the driver.

They sometimes say that they have the right to ask for this information. This doesn’t mean that you have to tell them.

However, even if you’ve written and told them who the driver was, it just means that they can now harass the driver instead of harassing the registered keeper.

How will they do this to me?

The PPC, then a debt collector and then a solicitor will send you a series of letters. The debt collector and solicitor are usually also the PPC, but using different headed paper. These letters will threaten you with every kind of financial and legal unpleasantness imaginable to intimidate you into paying.

But, they can't actually do anything, for the same reason that a blackmailer can't sue anyone who didn’t pay them.

What should I do then?

Continue to ignore everything you get from the PPC and their aliases. It does seem odd to deal with something like this by ignoring it. Eventually, they will run out of empty threats and stop throwing good money after bad.

However, the car hire/leasing company could be more trouble than the PPC. They could pay the charge and then pass the charge on to you, plus an administration charge. These administration charges must be a nice little earner for them. There are days, when I wonder who are the bigger crooks.

Their contract T&Cs usually have a clause about the driver being responsible for fines or penalties. That's legally enforceable fines or penalties from councils, police, train operators and Transport for London. But this is a speculative invoice from a private company. If they’ve paid it, that's up to them. If they’ve taken the money from your account, ask for it back, or else you’ll sue them for breach of their own contract.

Also advise them of this article from Fleet News ...

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2009...s-urged/30698/

... and the British Vehicle Rental & Leasing Association (BVRLA) guidelines on private parking tickets ...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bvrla+private+parking .

Askew

Thank you for your reply Stephen,

if I am reading the BVRLA guidelines correctly they're saying that while they would like to respect the PPC's authority they cannot force their members to? I'm sorry if I am being a bit dense here but all the legalese is not doing much to allay my nerves, to be honest.

Stephen_Leak

The BVRLA guidelines are just that, guidelines. But it's one more bit of info' to use on them, if you have to.

Sorry about the legalese. But it's nothing to the legal gobbledegook the PPC will use to frighten you into paying them.

The legal bottom line is that a private company can't raise a legally enforceable fine or penalty. No more than you or I could.

What you've found on the windscreen and what the car rental firm will receive in the post is the same as one of those fake invoices for stationery that businesses sometimes receive, in the hope that someone will pay it without question.

Ignore the PPC, but contact the rental firm ASAP, before the PPC does. Most are fully aware that private parking tickets are "speculative invoices" and a scam. But a few pay up on your behalf and add a charge for themselves.

The_Slithy_Tove

The alternative approach is to go against the general advice of "ignore", but to write to UKPC in order to deflect their attention away from the rental company. Do not say you are appealing. Just state that you have no intention of paying their invoice, and see you in court (which won't happen). Sign the letter (if you write) with an unintelligeable signature.

That should be enough for them to send their fake invoices and threatening letters to you instead of the rental company. Rental companies can be stupid (or complicit) in paying these charges, and slapping an "administration charge" on, which is a nice little earner for them. Check carefully the Ts&Cs to ensure it only talks about "fines and penalties". This is neither.

As a last resort, you could cancel the credit card you used, claiming it was lost, so the rental company cannot take any more money from it.

taffy056

But do car hire companies follow the bvrla in NI ? They are not part of Britain, but obviously part of the UK. Do they have their own over there?

You need to read the terms in your hire agreement, they normally mention parking penalties or fines, private parking is neither, if they take money it's unauthorised and actually against their terms. Do a chargeback or sue them. Tell them to forward your details to them then ignore the scammers.

EHBA

This is from a document on the BVRLA website from May 2009 'private parking code of practice BVRLA Response 0509'

I don't know if you can upload the doc to this site and apols if it was linked in Stephen Leake's post, I can't get a link on that.

No reference to PPC invoices

Summary of BVRLA Members legal right to transfer liability
Offence
Vehicle subject to a valid hire or lease agreement ? 1st Yes
Transfer of liability permitted? 2nd Yes
Legislation, Case Law or Agreement

Parking Fine
Yes Yes SI No. 3483 The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007

Speeding Fine
Yes Yes Road Traffic Act 1988

Bus Lane Fine
Yes Yes SI No. 2757 The Bus Lane Contraventions (Penalty Charges, Adjudication and Enforcement)(England) egulations
2005

Congestion Charge Fine
Yes Yesv SI No. 2285 Road User Charging (Charges and Penalty Charges) (London) Regulations 2001

No Operator’s Licence
Yes Yes SI No. 3981 Goods Vehicles (Enforcement
Powers) Regulations 2001

Excise Fraud –Bootlegging
Yes Yes Memorandum of Understanding in1992

Traffic Offences

Yes Yes London Local Authorities and

Transport for London Act 2003

Driving without a valid driving licence
Yes Yes Road Traffic Act 1988

Driving without a valid motor insurance
Yes Yes SI No. 1606 The Road Traffic Act 1988 (Retention and Disposal of Seized Motor Vehicles) Regulations 2005

Askew

Thank you all for your input.

As of last night and this morning I have been unable to locate Sixt's terms and conditions for Northern Ireland. On the website it seems there is a distinction between renting in the UK in general and renting in NI specifically, but the only document with full T&C I can find is one for the UK: [edited because I am not allowed to post links yet]. I am not entirely sure that these are the terms and conditions that apply and have therefore sent a request to Sixt to point me towards the T&C for NI.

Article 7.1.5 states that:

"When we work out our charges, you will agree to pay us the following;-

all fines and court costs for parking, traffic or other offences, including any costs which arise if the vehicle is clamped, and any civil penalty payable for the transport of illegal immigrants under immigration control legislation. You must pay the appropriate authority any fines and costs if and when the authority demands this payment. You will be responsible to pay our reasonable administration charges which arise when we deal with these matters."

Assuming that UKPC is not an appropriate authority and that what they have left me just a speculative invoice, this article should leave me in the clear, correct?

I am pondering pre-empting UKPC and emailing Sixt, like has been suggested, to inform them that I deny any debt and that they were not party to any contract between me and UKPC, if any such ever even existed in the first place. That they cannot be held liable since they were not the driver of the car at the time the charge was issued, and that furthermore, they cannot pass on my details as they are protected by the Data Protection Act of 1998 (if this applies to me, as I am a foreign resident).

What do you guys think of this idea?

taffy056

There is a large thread on sixt and them paying parking companies on pepipoo.com , but that was in England . As you mention often NI has different rules and terms. I am sure someone will link to the thread for you, it may help you

Askew

I am actually browsing pepipoo's forum as we speak, so no link is necessary. There is someone who received an invoice from Sixt regarding a parking charge issued on a van he rented, which they 'helpfully' paid and then charged him for, using his card details.

He forced a refund through an email exchange, and I am using his arguments as a template to form my own case on, should I need to take action. At this point in time I am just wondering if I should pre-empt or wait, and who to direct my messages to. UKPC or Sixt. I am leaning towards dealing with Sixt only and leaving UKPC to stew in it.

The_Slithy_Tove

I would vote for the pre-emptive approach. Heading them off at the pass is a lot better than having to fight to get your money back after they've taken it.