Private parking charge for upside down permit

Ditch12

My wife received a parking ticket on a retail park for £65 rising to £90 because our valid disabled permit was face down. She immediately showed the valid pass to the ticket warden and the customer service desk. They told her to email a photo to the company (care parking). Because of this they have her name but not our address yet. I see the threads saying ignore these tickets. Should we officially appeal in the 14 days given and give over further details or ignore things from this point? There are signs saying permits must be correctly displayed. All customer parking on the site is free.

muckybutt

You could appeal the ticket if you so wished, chances are though the parking company will say your appeal has been turned down. At this point it becomes a scam because you have permission to park - you have a permit - then they cant pursue you for anything.
Moreso the parking company cannot pursue you for anything other than the car park owners losses and then they cant do that following a recent court case, so you see the parking company are just out to scam you as best as they can through any means.

The standard way with these companies is to completely ignore them, the only time you need to seek advice is if they ever actually take you to court - dont worry they wont !

bargepole

Ditch12 wrote: »

... I see the threads saying ignore these tickets. ....

... And you should do the same. Check the paperwork that came with your blue badge, and you'll find they only apply in official, council-run car parks. "Official Appeal"? You're 'avin a larf ...

LincolnshireYokel

Ditch12 wrote: »

My wife received a parking ticket on a retail park for £65 rising to £90 because our valid disabled permit was face down. She immediately showed the valid pass to the ticket warden and the customer service desk. They told her to email a photo to the company (care parking). Because of this they have her name but not our address yet. I see the threads saying ignore these tickets. Should we officially appeal in the 14 days given and give over further details or ignore things from this point? There are signs saying permits must be correctly displayed. All customer parking on the site is free.

Imitation road markings, including pretend disabled bays, on private land have no legal standing, are not included in the Road Traffic Act and Road Markings Regulations and cannot be enforced even by the Police or Council, let alone a private company.

Ignore the scammers, theres nothing they can do and you owe them not a single cent.

Stephen_Leak

Care Parking. One of the contenders for the most inappropriately named PPC.

Firstly, the legal stuff.

Only councils, the police, train operators and Transport for London can impose legally enforceable fines or penalties. A private company or individual can't. A private parking company (PPC) call their tickets “Parking Charge Notices”, not “Penalty Charge Notices”. In law, they’re called “speculative invoices”.

Any warning signs are usually so badly positioned and worded, that they won’t have created a fair and legally binding deemed contract between the car park owner and a driver entering the car park in the first place. See The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997 and Excel Parking Services vs. Cutts, Stockport, 2011.

All the car park owner (CPO) can claim from a driver in damages for any alleged breach of any alleged contract is what they’ve lost as a result. If it’s in a free car park or the driver paid, this is £0.00. Demanding more has been judged to be unreasonable and therefore an unfair contract penalty under the terms of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997, which is not legally enforceable. See Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. vs. New Garage & Motor Co. Ltd., House of Lords, 1914 and countless cases since.

There are also now recent landmark court cases, VCS Parking Control vs. Ronald Ibbotson, S!!!!horpe, 2012, HM Revenue & Customs vs. VCS Parking Control, Lower Tax Tribunal, 2012 and VCS Parking Control vs. HM Revenue & Customs (Appeal), Upper Tax Tribunal, 2012. In these cases, the judges ruled that only the car park owner can take drivers to court. The Upper Tax Tribunal is a court of record, equivalent to the High Court, and therefore its judgement sets a legal precedent.

The Blue Badge scheme doesn’t apply to private car parks. Anyone, who’s disabled under the terms of The Equality Act 2010 can use a disabled parking bay. If they’re also Blue Badge holders, they don't need to display it. The Equality Act doesn't say that able-bodied drivers can't also use disabled parking bays. OK, maybe they shouldn't, but they can. This probably contravenes the terms & conditions for the car park, which usually state that you shouldn't park in a disabled bay without displaying a badge. This, in itself, contravenes The Equality Act.

What should I do now?

We don’t condone not paying or overstaying in a pay car park. If you owe the CPO the original charge, then you ought to write to the CPO, offering this in “full and final settlement”. In any event, you should write to the CPO, advising them that they are "jointly and severally liable" for the actions of their agents, the PPC, and that any further actions by either of them would be regarded as harassment under the terms of The Protection from Harassment Act 1997. This ought to make the CPO call off the PPC and, hopefully, realise the potential cost of doing business with a PPC.

Don’t appeal to the PPC. They always reject them. What’s in it for them to let anyone off? Actually, there is something in it for them: information. They need to know the identity of the driver of the vehicle involved at the time, because that’s who the alleged contract was with. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to make do with harassing the registered keeper.

With windscreen notices, an appeal letter will tell them your name and address, and maybe who was driving at the time. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to buy the details of registered keeper from the DVLA. With postal notices, they’ve had to do this already. But they still need to know the identity of the driver.

They sometimes say that they have the right to ask for this information. This doesn’t mean that you have to tell them.

However, even if you’ve written and told them who the driver was, it just means that they can now harass the driver instead of harassing the registered keeper.

How will they do this to me?

The PPC, then a debt collector and then a solicitor will send you a series of letters. The debt collector and solicitor are usually also the PPC, but using different headed paper. These letters will threaten you with every kind of financial and legal unpleasantness imaginable to intimidate you into paying.

But, they can't actually do anything, for the same reason that a blackmailer can't sue anyone who didn’t pay them.

What should I do then?

Continue to ignore everything you get from the PPC and their aliases. It does seem odd to deal with something like this by ignoring it. Eventually, they will run out of empty threats and stop throwing good money after bad.

bondy_lad

its a FAKE ticket that you have recieved,simply ignore its a SCAM,nothing can/will happen to you as a result of this, worry not, relax, feet up, glass of wine,jobs a good un then.

Stephen_Leak

¡ɯǝɥʇ ǝɹouƃI

prowla

So, the permit was face down (ie. not visible), as opposed to being upside down, and so basically it wasn't being displayed, and I suppose the attendent acted accordingly.

But the other comments here would appear to suggest that it doesn't matter anyway.

Stephen_Leak

The permit didn't need to be on the dashboard anyway. By requiring one to be displayed, the car park owner and PPC were breaching the terms of The Equality Act 2010.

It's no different to requiring lepers to ring a hand bell and shout, "Unclean".

prowla

Stephen_Leak wrote: »

The permit didn't need to be on the dashboard anyway. By requiring one to be displayed, the car park owner and PPC were breaching the terms of The Equality Act 2010.

It's no different to requiring lepers to ring a hand bell and shout, "Unclean".

How so?

The purpose of the badge is to grant them an extra privilege, not to apply any form of stigma.

trisontana

prowla wrote: »

How so?

The purpose of the badge is to grant them an extra privilege, not to apply any form of stigma.

Because the Blue Badge scheme does not apply to private car-parks. By limiting disabled parking to blue badge holders it breaks equality legislation by discriminating against disabled people who do not have a blue badge.