Parking ticket, help needed!

SodG24

stampedli wrote: »

I have just received a “PARKING ENFORCEMENT NOTICE” from Apcoa for 02-Dropping off / Picking up outside of a designated parking area at Luton Airport.
How nice it is!
I have read all the comments here and still a bit paranoid about that what happens if I don’t pay it.
First of all I will receive more letters, and then harassing phone calls.
Are you really really really 100% sure they can not have the legal right to get me to pay this fine?

Judging by the title of the notice it's a private issued one. In which case just ignore anything you get ( except official court papers that are stamped ).

As to how sure we are ? Well there's two schools of thought :

1. Ignore all PPC invoices - a move supported by hundreds of posters and probably 1/2 million posts

2. Payup - supported by a number of Trolls ( probably less than 10 ) supported by less than 100 posts

If you were a betting man which would you go for ?

( *** apologies to the poster who came up with the original post like this *** )

LincolnshireYokel

stampedli wrote: »

I have just received a “PARKING ENFORCEMENT NOTICE” from Apcoa for 02-Dropping off / Picking up outside of a designated parking area at Luton Airport.
How nice it is!
I have read all the comments here and still a bit paranoid about that what happens if I don’t pay it.
First of all I will receive more letters, and then harassing phone calls.
Are you really really really 100% sure they can not have the legal right to get me to pay this fine?

Well for a start its not a 'fine', so stop calling it that, you give it more credibility than it has - its an unsolicited invoice for a contract you never entered into for an illegal and unenforceable contract penalty. . The only body with the right to fine you is a court, even the Police cant issues fines, only Penalties. private persons and private companies have NO LEGAL ability to issue a fine whatsoever, and this was written into the Distress Act 1267.

second, it is illegal to harass someone for an alleged debt, if they harass you, you report them to the police - thats written into the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 and the Administration of Justice Act 1970

thirdly they dont own the land, and the ruling of VCS vs HMRC 2012 in UTT ruled that a private parking company , with no proprietorial interest in the land (ie doesnt own it) cannot offer parking, and cannot pursue motorists for any charges. Only the landowner can do that, and then can only sue for actual losses, which in your case are NIL.

And finally, some statistics. Whats the chances of you being taken to court? Well due to some well placed FOI requests, we can tell you exactly - you have 49 chances in 1,800,000 of going to court. Thats how many were taken to court last year. The PPC's won just 24 because or poor defence of the defence not turning up, and we dont know the result in the other 25.

Theres many other reasons why its unenforceable, but any two of the above can sink it in court.

Stephen_Leak

Duplicated post. I've copied my reply over to the Luton Airport thread.

redglass_2

I hope someone can advise me. On Tuesday night I parked my car in a rail station car park and found that the 'pay by card' machine was broken. I didn't have the cash, so went back to my car for my bag and phone. Tried to pay by phone - the first time I'd ever done this. It was slow, and by this time the train was coming. The call cut out with a 'beeping' sound. Tried again but wasn't sure if I'd done it right (the instructions are burbled rapidly, not easy to follow if you haven't done it before and are in a tearing hurry/panic). In the end I had to get on the train hoping it had gone through. Over the next 3 days I was in an intensive course but tried repeatedly to contact APCOA by phone and via their website. I was practically screaming with frustration since if you phone, you just go round and round in Voice Jail. I was never able to talk with anyone. I have the reference nos for 2 written messages logged with their site on Thursday 26 July, explaining the situation and urgently requesting someone to call me or email me. Both times a message came up onscreen saying someone would come back to me 'shortly' . I told the course organisers that I had to leave my phone on in class and explained why (so I have witnesses as to what was going on) but I've yet to hear from APCOA. Early this morning I finally managed to get through on their phone number but was again unable to talk to anyone: something had changed, however, and I got an automated message offering the chance to buy parking for that day, which I did. I got back to find TWO bloody notices on the car windscreen, one for 25 and one for 26 July (the day I was repeatedly logging messages with APCOA). The notices are headed 'civil parking notice' and each is asking £80 - £50 if I cheerfully pay for the fact that their ****ing machine was broken and they ignore their customers. There's the usual charming threat of a County Court summons. Unfortunately these people already know who was driving because I kept contacting them, trying to sort it out. Can I ignore the notices? Are they likely to win any County Court case brought against me? They sent me a text asking me to text 'reg' and then my registration but I thought I had already done this. What's more, when I finally managed to buy some parking time this morning, my car reg came up automatically on the voicemail, so it would appear it DID get into the system somehow - interesting, eh? What do you think? What's my best policy?

Stephen_Leak

Read post #2.

Coupon-mad

redglass wrote: »

I hope someone can advise me. On Tuesday night I parked my car in a rail station car park and found that the 'pay by card' machine was broken. I didn't have the cash, so went back to my car for my bag and phone. Tried to pay by phone - the first time I'd ever done this. It was slow, and by this time the train was coming. The call cut out with a 'beeping' sound. Tried again but wasn't sure if I'd done it right (the instructions are burbled rapidly, not easy to follow if you haven't done it before and are in a tearing hurry/panic). In the end I had to get on the train hoping it had gone through. Over the next 3 days I was in an intensive course but tried repeatedly to contact APCOA by phone and via their website. I was practically screaming with frustration since if you phone, you just go round and round in Voice Jail. I was never able to talk with anyone. I have the reference nos for 2 written messages logged with their site on Thursday 26 July, explaining the situation and urgently requesting someone to call me or email me. Both times a message came up onscreen saying someone would come back to me 'shortly' . I told the course organisers that I had to leave my phone on in class and explained why (so I have witnesses as to what was going on) but I've yet to hear from APCOA. Early this morning I finally managed to get through on their phone number but was again unable to talk to anyone: something had changed, however, and I got an automated message offering the chance to buy parking for that day, which I did. I got back to find TWO bloody notices on the car windscreen, one for 25 and one for 26 July (the day I was repeatedly logging messages with APCOA). The notices are headed 'civil parking notice' and each is asking £80 - £50 if I cheerfully pay for the fact that their ****ing machine was broken and they ignore their customers. There's the usual charming threat of a County Court summons. Unfortunately these people already know who was driving because I kept contacting them, trying to sort it out. Can I ignore the notices? Are they likely to win any County Court case brought against me? They sent me a text asking me to text 'reg' and then my registration but I thought I had already done this. What's more, when I finally managed to buy some parking time this morning, my car reg came up automatically on the voicemail, so it would appear it DID get into the system somehow - interesting, eh? What do you think? What's my best policy?

Wow you have taken this scam far too seriously. It's not a fine.

For goodness sake just calm down, read these links and enjoy the Summer knowing you dodged being ripped off by a well-known racket:

Tick off the threatening letters Here.

Watchdog clip with expert Solicitor's opinion here.

Barrister's advice here. She clearly says: ''This is a private land fine. They are unenforceable. This is not a parking fine however it may look. These companies are private firms that have no more right to punish you for the manner of your parking than your neighbour does. Only the police or the local Council can do that.''

Please follow and read those links, now, so you know what it's all about and can just play a nice game of snap with the template threatogram letters.

Nothing else will happen, no CCJ, no summons (can't happen as it's NOT a crime!), no bailiff, no-one comes knocking and there is NO EFFECT on your credit rating.

It's ONLY SOME JUNK MAIL! it really is just like laughing at and deleting a series of phishing emails. Done it twice myself and some posters here collect loads of these fake PCNs deliberately, for a bit of amusing fun and to cost the racketeers money.


HTH

LincolnshireYokel

Calm down dear, its a scam!!!

They dont own the land, they cant offer parking and therefore cant pursue you for any alleged charge. Simple as that. This isnt opinion, its law.

see http://www.tribunals.gov.uk/financeandtax/Documents/decisions/vehicle_control_services_v_hmrc.pdf

So relax, ignore them, and ignore all the scary but toothless threatograms they will send you over the next few months in an attempt to scare you into paying, and any letters from pretend debt collectors and fake solicitors Their ridiculous exorbitant unjustified charge is unenforceable in law and they know it. And now you do as well..

redglass_2

Thank you. I did actually read post #2 and others but bear in mind I'd just come home exhausted after 3 days of an intensive course plus 3 nights of sleep deprivation in a broiling London room with the noise of the Olympic preparations around me, I didn't know if APCOA were the same people as PPC , didn't know who legally owns rail car parks, didn't know if it mattered that I'd already been contacting them and thereby revealing who was driving the car (in a nutshell, wasn't sure if my case was actually the same as post #2).

Since I contacted you I've found that my first payment to them is shown on my bank statement. So I think even if it went to CC they'd have trouble showing I was ripping them off.

Stephen_Leak

redglass wrote: »

Thank you. I did actually read post #2 and others but bear in mind I'd just come home exhausted after 3 days of an intensive course plus 3 nights of sleep deprivation in a broiling London room with the noise of the Olympic preparations around me, I didn't know if APCOA were the same people as PPC , didn't know who legally owns rail car parks, didn't know if it mattered that I'd already been contacting them and thereby revealing who was driving the car (in a nutshell, wasn't sure if my case was actually the same as post #2).

Since I contacted you I've found that my first payment to them is shown on my bank statement. So I think even if it went to CC they'd have trouble showing I was ripping them off.

That's a fair reason.

PPC is the abbreviation for private parking company, as defined in the first paragraph.

The actual circumstances of how a victim got scammed are usually academic.