Parking ticket, help needed!

sunflowerjazz

I received a parking ticket (Elite Management Midlands Ltd) for parking on 'private land' not clearly marked with parking restrictions for which I have photographic evidence. I was not aware that this was 'private land' as it is a 'service road' outside the college my daughter attended for an interview. There were other cars parked in the same area and no clear signs showing the restrictions or sign posts to the actual car park. As far as I could see this was the parking area for the college as it is right in front of the college main entrance and the road surface where I parked is even a different type of surface to that of the service road, again suggesting this was the allocated parking for the college with no clear signs or yellow lines stating otherwise. I appealed the ticket and sent in the evidence and now Elite have sent the debt to a bailiff (Roxburghe Debt Collectors) who have contacted me charging an extra £103 for the fine. I do not feel that this is at all fair! The parking information on the ticket is also different to the detail on Roxburghes letter so there is inconsistency in the correspondence as Roxburghe are stating that "In line with the terms and conditions of parking at the above site (**** Car Park) you have incurred late payment charges which are included in the total amount due." The ticket was issued in a 'private service road' (not car park) and clearly states this on the ticket. So as far as I can see these late payment charges are not only unfair but completely invalid! What are my rights? Do I have to pay? Does the bailiff have any legal powers or rights to remove my car/property without this going to court? I am a new driver and do not want any points etc on my license. Really need some help. Thank you.

Stephen_Leak

Roxburghe are not bailiffs. Do they actually claim to be bailiffs, or to be able to impose licence points? If so, then that would be a criminal offence under The Administation of Justice Act 1970, and we would love to see the letter.

Firstly, the legal stuff.

Only councils, the police, train operators and Transport for London can impose legally enforceable fines or penalties. A private company or individual can't. A private parking company (PPC) call their tickets “Parking Charge Notices”, not “Penalty Charge Notices”. In law, they’re called “speculative invoices”.

Any warning signs are usually so badly positioned and worded, that they won’t have created a fair and legally binding deemed contract between the car park owner and a driver entering the car park in the first place. See The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997 and Excel Parking Services vs. Cutts, Stockport, 2011.

All the car park owner (CPO) can claim from a driver in damages for any alleged breach of any alleged contract is what they’ve lost as a result. If it’s in a free car park or the driver paid, this is £0.00. Demanding more has been judged to be unreasonable and therefore an unfair contract penalty under the terms of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997, which is not legally enforceable. See Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. vs. New Garage & Motor Co. Ltd., House of Lords, 1914 and countless cases since.

There are also now recent landmark court cases, VCS Parking Control vs. Ronald Ibbotson, S!!!!horpe, 2012, HM Revenue & Customs vs. VCS Parking Control, Lower Tax Tribunal, 2012 and VCS Parking Control vs. HM Revenue & Customs (Appeal), Upper Tax Tribunal, 2012. In these cases, the judges ruled that only the car park owner can take drivers to court. The Upper Tax Tribunal is a court of record, equivalent to the High Court, and therefore its judgement sets a legal precedent.

What should I do now?

We don’t condone not paying or overstaying in a pay car park. If you owe the CPO the original charge, then you ought to write to the CPO, offering this in “full and final settlement”. In any event, you should write to the CPO, advising them that they are "jointly and severally liable" for the actions of their agents, the PPC, and that any further actions by either of them would be regarded as harassment under the terms of The Protection from Harassment Act 1997. This ought to make the CPO call off the PPC and, hopefully, realise the potential cost of doing business with a PPC.

Don’t appeal to the PPC. They always reject them. What’s in it for them to let anyone off? Actually, there is something in it for them: information. They need to know the identity of the driver of the vehicle involved at the time, because that’s who the alleged contract was with. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to make do with harassing the registered keeper.

With windscreen notices, an appeal letter will tell them your name and address, and maybe who was driving at the time. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to buy the details of registered keeper from the DVLA. With postal notices, they’ve had to do this already. But they still need to know the identity of the driver.

They sometimes say that they have the right to ask for this information. This doesn’t mean that you have to tell them.

However, even if you’ve written and told them who the driver was, it just means that they can now harass the driver instead of harassing the registered keeper.

How will they do this to me?

The PPC, then a debt collector and then a solicitor will send you a series of letters. The debt collector and solicitor are usually also the PPC, but using different headed paper. These letters will threaten you with every kind of financial and legal unpleasantness imaginable to intimidate you into paying.

The more unpleasant threats usually include mentioning that, if the case goes to court, a county court judgement (CCJ) will be issued, that bailiffs will be appointed and that your credit rating will be ruined. For things to actually get to this stage, the car park owner would have to take you to court and win the case. Then, you would have to refuse to pay, to get a CCJ issued after 28 days. Then, you would have to still refuse to pay, to get bailiffs appointed.

But, they can't actually do anything, for the same reason that a blackmailer can't sue anyone who didn’t pay them.

What should I do then?

Continue to ignore everything you get from the PPC and their aliases. It does seem odd to deal with something like this by ignoring it. Eventually, they will run out of empty threats and stop throwing good money after bad.

bondy_lad

just 100% relax, roxburghe (we have zero powers) are not bailiffs, merely a scum firm of debt collectors, they have no powers whatsover,can you please confirm ,,have you recieved a PARKING charge notice or a PENALTY charge notice,we need this info to accurately advise you.

doodlesmum

Only a court can fine you the only parking ticket you need to be paying attention too are the ones issued by the police or the council parking warden.You parked where as far as you could see it was part the college.Roxburghe are debt collectors they are not bailiffs so they can do absolutely nothing .I had similar when i parked in hospital carpark,parked in space that was in the carpark no sign to say you couldnt park had parking firm say it was reserved space but there was absolutely no sign to state this plus parking bloke watched me park there and go inside.
I dont take no prisoners they got the fine back through the post stating there was no signage plus your idiot attendent watched me and oh actually you are not a court so you cant fine me but you can try if you want your day in court,that was 2yrs ago not a peep but they have since put up a sign in the same place :rotfl:.

I am sure everyone will agree dont contact them again and just ignore they wont take you to court because they know they would lose, they are just trying it on.

sunflowerjazz

Thank you everyone! Starting to feel much better now. I had a feeling they were just trying it on since I did appeal and heard nothing back from them at all until I received this letter from Roxburghe. They have not claimed that they are bailiffs or that they can put points on my license that was just my interpretation of their company and fears of what powers they may have. The notice is a PARKING CHARGE NOTICE. As stated in my original post it was issued in what they refer to as a 'service road' although there were no signs stating this on entry to this area. The letter from Roxburghe states I was parked in **** car park, hence the supposed late payment charges but this is completely inaccurate and untrue. There were no parking charges on the 'service road' where I parked. So can I just clarify, for bailiffs to be sent out this matter would first need to go to court, the company would need to win their case and I would need to default on payment before bailiffs could be called upon? Should I seek legal advice or is this a cost thats just not worth paying? Thanks!

BASFORDLAD

You will also get letters from fake solicitor graham white.

You don't need legal advice you have just been given the facts

SodG24

Correct on the bailiff thing. No, you don't need legal advice - just ignore ( for free ). If you REALLY must get legal advice look at the Watchdog video in the stickies at the top of the board and see what advice a real live solicitor gives - I think you can guess ?

bondy_lad

take it easy,, why exactly would you NEED legal advice for a fake ticket??? what you need to do is this,,,,,NOTHING ,,simply ignore everything,,roxburghe and the phone solicitor,,graham white(next desk along from roxburghe) are all part of the scam, relax, chill, glass of wine, feet up,absolutely nothing else for you to do , other than ignore,come back as often as you like for reassurance/advice.there you go, jobs a real good un.

Stephen_Leak

I suspected that you were threatening yourself with more that Roxburghe were. You aren't the first, and won't be the last, to do this.

As you can see from their letters, Roxburghe aren't the sharpest knife in the box. Graham White, the solicitors who you will be hearing from soon, aren't any better. That's because they're the same people. Please note the identical squiggly signatures.

Roxburghe are under investigation by the Office of Fair Trading, who are "minded to revoke their licence". Graham White are under investigation by the Solicitors Regulation Authority for threatening people with legal action that they can't actually take.

Since those recent landmark court cases, only the car park owner can take someone to court for an alleged breach of contract for the use of their land. And all they could claim in damages is what they lost as a result. Which, in this case, like so many others, is £0.00.

If a landowner ever does somehow win a court case, the victim would then actually regain complete control of the situation. And, frankly, in these circumstances, I think we'd advise admitting defeat and paying up!

You can run this past a solicitor if you like. Some do free first consultations. I'd welcome any feedback.

sunflowerjazz

Thank you everyone I find it absolutely astonishing how these dodgy firms are allowed to just buy information from government sources like the DVLA. In any other capacity this would be a criminal offence! How are they allowed to do it? This is legal bully boy tactics trying to squeeze money out of people that by all accounts they are not entitled to otherwise surely they would be winning court cases left right and centre?! I am so glad I asked here first before sending off a cheque of my hard earned money through fear! I may cave at the next letter and need further reassurance of what to do next so I have no doubt that I will be back

stampedli

I have just received a “PARKING ENFORCEMENT NOTICE” from Apcoa for 02-Dropping off / Picking up outside of a designated parking area at Luton Airport.
How nice it is!
I have read all the comments here and still a bit paranoid about that what happens if I don’t pay it.
First of all I will receive more letters, and then harassing phone calls.
Are you really really really 100% sure they can not have the legal right to get me to pay this fine?